Where to start?

[adam74]

Hi

I've been playing poker for a couple of years, and now play exclusively on-line. I'd like to get a home game going - just for fun - with four other guys who'd like to give it a go. One of them has been playing online (NLHE) for a few weeks, so has some understanding of the game. The other three have never played before, and don't even know hand rankings. What would be the best starting point for these guys? 5-card draw, just to get them to understand hand rankings in the first instance, before hopefully moving on to holdem at some point?

The main objectives are for it to be enjoyable, and also to find the most accessible way for the total novices to begin to learn the game. We're only going to be putting up something like £2 each.

My feelings are that 5-card draw might be the best way of introducing them to the fundamentals of poker, but that it's not as enjoyable as other variants. What about 5-card draw with some wild cards, or is that just complicating matters?

Thanks for any advice.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi

I've been playing poker for a couple of years, and now play exclusively on-line. I'd like to get a home game going - just for fun - with four other guys who'd like to give it a go. One of them has been playing online (NLHE) for a few weeks, so has some understanding of the game. The other three have never played before, and don't even know hand rankings. What would be the best starting point for these guys? 5-card draw, just to get them to understand hand rankings in the first instance, before hopefully moving on to holdem at some point?

The main objectives are for it to be enjoyable, and also to find the most accessible way for the total novices to begin to learn the game. We're only going to be putting up something like £2 each.

Thanks for any advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would start with holdem as soon as you can, instead of focusing on 5-card draw. How much will they play 5-draw anywhere?
I would do some training and strategy sessions after you've worked on card rankings and position and general poker concepts ("fold, then raise, and only then call").

Eventually, you might get more play for your money if you play tournaments. I assume that's what you're planning.

[adam74]

Thanks.

[ QUOTE ]
I would start with holdem as soon as you can, instead of focusing on 5-card draw. How much will they play 5-draw anywhere?


[/ QUOTE ]

With the exception of the guy that's already been playing online a little, the others are unlikely to ever play anywhere else at all. Do you think that they can learn hand rankings quickly by playing holdem, or will having to deal with the community cards, extra betting rounds and picking the best 5-card hand out of 7 cards make this more difficult?

[ QUOTE ]
I would do some training and strategy sessions after you've worked on card rankings and position and general poker concepts ("fold, then raise, and only then call").

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm...while I'd enjoy this, I'm not sure that giving even a mildly serious air to proceedings at this point would be a good idea. I don't think they'd be interested so early on. If they really go for it, and catch the bug, then maybe a bit further down the line.

[ QUOTE ]
Eventually, you might get more play for your money if you play tournaments. I assume that's what you're planning.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd love to do that, but with so few of us, and so little poker knowledge knocking about, there'd be no chance of a side game getting going after people got knocked out of the tourney. So I think it'd be better to keep everyone involved all the time at the moment by playing a cash game.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]

With the exception of the guy that's already been playing online a little, the others are unlikely to ever play anywhere else at all. Do you think that they can learn hand rankings quickly by playing holdem, or will having to deal with the community cards, extra betting rounds and picking the best 5-card hand out of 7 cards make this more difficult?

[/ QUOTE ]

They're THAT new? Then you're right, 5-draw. Only problem is, it can get a little boring with 2 betting rounds.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would do some training and strategy sessions after you've worked on card rankings and position and general poker concepts ("fold, then raise, and only then call").

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm...while I'd enjoy this, I'm not sure that giving even a mildly serious air to proceedings at this point would be a good idea. I don't think they'd be interested so early on. If they really go for it, and catch the bug, then maybe a bit further down the line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds good- what did you need MY advice for, then? :P


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Eventually, you might get more play for your money if you play tournaments. I assume that's what you're planning.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd love to do that, but with so few of us, and so little poker knowledge knocking about, there'd be no chance of a side game getting going after people got knocked out of the tourney. So I think it'd be better to keep everyone involved all the time at the moment by playing a cash game.

[/ QUOTE ]

If money is tight, as well as knowledge/experience, then you could inflate the chip values to give more play. Make each pound = 100 chips or something (must get chips of some sort for that "real poker" feel, no matter how cheap the chips are) and the betting 5/10. Then divide by 100 at the end of the night for the real winnings.

Good luck getting started!

[aces_dad]

When I first started playing with my newbie friends, we played a couple 'free' NL tourneys, and actually had cheat sheets written down so they could evaluate hand strength using a written chart.

Have your friends watched poker on TV? My buddies were never interested in a cash / limit game and wanted to play NL tourneys right away. We started with large stacks, very cheap buy-in like $5 each and small starting blinds, meaning we only got in like 1 game in 2+ hrs or so. It's taken several months but the games are now getting better.

[stevea]

I'd recommend holdem. It won't take long for them to understand that a poker hand is made up of the best 5 cards...

Also, if you decided to go with tournaments, www.homepokertourney.com is the end-all resource.

steve
<font color="orange">North Shore Low Rollers</font>

[Etaipo]

buy this , then have your friends over to watch it. they'll know the basics, and you can get started. I let any new people that I introduce to the game that don't know how to play borrow it.

[ThinkQuick]

Hey you want them to learn don't you -

hold'em isn't omaha - they'll learn fast to pick 5 and know where they are on the hand ranking list. give it time tho, keep playing little tournies if you're actually in it for fun

[adam74]

Thanks for all the comments.

I think I'm still leaning towards 5-card draw, just so they can get the basic hand rankings down. Maybe we only play that for a short while, and then move on to holdem in the same evening. I was also wondering about 7-card stud - extra betting rounds to create more action/interest, and maybe slightly easier than holdem to pick out the best 5-card hand, since all 7 cards are the player's own cards. Any thoughts on that?

If we do play 5-card draw, which is a game I don't have very much experience of at all, is it better played with antes or 2 blinds? Using antes seems to be the traditional approach, but the internet sites I've seen all use blinds instead.

[bolgenmod]

I have to add to the chorus of voices against 5 card draw, but for a totally different reason. If your desire is to teach hand rankings, 5 draw seems a pretty bad choice, especially with only 5 players. The problem is that the average winning hand in draw is going to be lower than in many other variations, so generally you won't have to worry if a flush beats a straight: it's a rare deal in which two premium hands like that come up against each other. So for the vast majority of hands, it's going to be one or two pair versus another one or two pair. Not too tough to figure out.

Someone else could no doubt give you the math, but the basic idea is that the more possible combinations there are, the higher the hands. (That's why winning Omaha hands are usually so high.)

The other problem with draw is that it's really boring if you play it right (unless you are an expert, of course). Most hands you get dealt are worthless, so you fold before the draw. And wait for the two people with decent hands to play for a tiny pot. Yes, of course one should fold the vast majority of starting holdem hands too, but there are more playable two card combinations than playable five card combinations available.

Get cheat sheets and play holdem. It's really the easiest to learn. (With 7 stud, they'll have to worry about "dead" draws because of others' upcards.) Only if people actually get flushes, straights, full houses, etc on a regular basis will they ever learn what beats what. And cheat sheets give you a great tell to look for: when someone starts looking at the sheet and the board is paired or three flush cards are out, you can fold your TPTK!