JJ, Out of Position and Early On

[Elektrik]

Party $30+3. It's level 2, and I want to avoid major confrontations. My line here is to call the raise, and look for a non threatening flop or a set; otherwise, I am ready to give it up. Is this an ok line, or am I just being weak tight? If that's the case, bet the flop, or check raise it? And if you do bet the flop, what is your line if he smooth calls you (as a raise is an easy fold)? Comments on all streets appreciated.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

Hero (t725)
UTG (t730)
UTG+1 (t845)
MP1 (t820)
MP2 (t790)
MP3 (t1680)
CO (t1385)
Button (t265)
SB (t760)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t75</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls t45.

Flop: (t165) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t95</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t260

[SuitedSixes]

Since your stated goal is to avoid major confrontations, I think you did just that. I don't think there's anything wrong with weak-tight at this point in a tournament. Later in the tournament against a later-positioned player (CO or Button), maybe I consider sticking around.

I don't think there would be anything wrong with a fold pre-flop. Early on, I think that JJ is a limping hand, so (gap concept) calling a raise would not be correct for me.

[Phoenix1010]

I think this is a great question, and I'm very curious what other players do in this situation, as it comes up often. I agree that it's best not to get too involved with jacks against a player that has shown strength at this point in the tournament. I would not say folding preflop is a good choice here however, as it's only t45 to call out of the BB and it's probably worth it just for set value. This flop is one of the worst you can see with this hand in your position since it's so hard to tell exactly where you are, so check-folding is definitely not a bad choice. I might choose to lead out with a pot-sized bet on this flop, just in case he's holding AK, AJs, or TT, but this play is iffy. After you checked, he bet t95 into a t165 pot with two connected hearts on board. Seems to me he would want to protect a big hand on that board with a larger bet, so I might decide that he's weak and represent a big hand with a check-raise, but that's probably another iffy play. All in all, check-folding is the safest play here, and I don't think there's a reason not to play it safe at this point. Interested in what others have to say though.

[captZEEbo1]

you should be betting out this flop, or check-raising it. Either that, or you are essentially calling his preflop raise with 22, playing for set value. Overpairs with JJ is not that likely (QQ is only about 50%, I forget what JJ is, but I think it's less than 33%). But basically JJ should not be played solely for overpair value. You have to figure what is he raising with? AQ QK AA KK QQ 77 88 are the only legit hands that beat you. But he is going to be betting the flop no matter what hits (unless he's a relatively passive player and is willing to check down A hi). You should bet or check-raise and see what he does after that.

[lorinda]

Either that, or you are essentially calling his preflop raise with 22, playing for set value.

Not much problem with that for 45 chips. If he connects it's a stack buster.

Lori

[Elektrik]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but JJ will find an undercard flop 45% of the time. (77% chance of no overcard hitting, .77^3 is .456)

My 45% chance of having an overpair on the flop makes this a MUCH different situation than 22. And I will hit a set 8% of that 55% that an overard falls. So, theoretically I will like my hand on the flop (.45 + [.08*.55] = .49) 49% of the time.

One thing that must be noted is that I will lose money if my opponent has AA, KK, or QQ, although how much depends on how I play the hand.

I am not a big fan like check raising the flop here. Like I said, I want to avoid major confrontations early on, and a check raise will put over 30% of my stack in the middle on a hand that, if called, will have to shut down, and if reraised, will have to fold.

I like a flop bet of perhaps 3/4 pot better, as I commmit less chips, can still lay it down to a raise, and will be able to shut down if called. However, this again is not a great option as many 30+3 players will call here with little (some with any A), leaving me open to a bluff on the turn or river and unsure of where I stand. In this vein, it may be better to check raise if I am going to be an aggressor.

I'm really not sure. The more I think about it, at this stage, I'm ok with my check fold on that flop. Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken.

[ChrisV]

Looks good to me. He's bet reasonably strong and I'm not inclined to play back on a board like that.

[captZEEbo1]

Odds are fairly small that he flops TPTK and you flop a set. The odds are probably small enough to NOT justify calling the pf raise.

But yeah, I call small raises with low pp's to flop sets. The thing is, I don't just give it up on the flop in a heads up match when he bets the flop :-D

[RobGW]

I think phoenix and captzeebo made some good points. I would add that you should be considering what type of player MP2 is. I know its only level 2 but you should have some type of read on him. Does he raise a lot or is he normally passive? Is he normally aggressive post flop? Will he bet evertime he is checked to? You can't just give up everytime an overcard falls to your wired pair. You could very well be ahead here especially heads up. He was first in from MP so he could be raising with any decent hand.

[hotcookie42]

My question is, what am I trying to accomplish with this raise w/ TT or JJ in ep? Do I want a caller? If not, my raise needs to be bigger.

Next question: what hands does this guy call me with? for that I need a read. some people in 30+3 will make some lousy calls (got called last night by a guy with A6s in same situation, for example). I come out betting on a flop like this for that reason.