river betting

jstoc · #1 11-01-2005, 10:30 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
I feel like this is a part of my game that is really weak. Is there any point to betting the river in situations like this?
I feel like if he has a busted draw he won't call, and if he was sandbagging I'm going to get raise, plus I'm saving myself the trouble of getting re-reraised all-in as a bluff, but still I feel like I may be missing some opportunities to pick up chips.

Thoughts?
Button (t6840)
SB (Villain) (t24455)
Hero (t35330)
UTG (t24230)
UTG+1 (t36209)
MP1 (t47237)
MP2 (t6650)
MP3 (t34783)
CO (t28448)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
5 folds, CO calls t400, 1 fold, Villain completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t1200) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Villain bets t800, Hero raises to t2400, CO folds, Villain calls t1600.

Turn: (t6000) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets t4000, Villain calls t4000.

River: (t14000) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: t14000

lotus776 · #2 11-01-2005, 10:39 PM

yeah, his multiple calls indicate he's got something hidden in there. I think your check on the river was a reasonable thing to do considering he probably expected you to bet and that would leave you open for the RR. check is reasonable. Nonetheless you gave pretty bad calling odds for any of his possible holdings that would make comparable hand like 2pr., or the idiot straight. Some people can't help calling though

charlieD · #3 11-01-2005, 10:45 PM

you played it well. nothing worse than value betting the river in these situations and getting checkraised all in

#4 11-01-2005, 11:20 PM

Looks fine to me, I check behind on alot of rivers myself, and 2/5 times find out someone was going to go for the check raise on me, instead of going for it on the turn. Of course, that means a majority of the time I don't bet the river, but I think probably at least 1/5th of the time I couldn't have gotten any more out of them (missed draw etc.), and the other times, I am losing chips not doing it, although it would be very unpleasant to have someone bluff check raise that river with your hand.

I would check behind there also, thats the beauty of position.

Dirtsqrl77 · #5 11-01-2005, 11:36 PM

His play looks mighty weak to me. This being said, I think with pot the size it is I happy to take it down behind.
There is a chance he is going for a check raise, or setting up to make a move either way I hate/don't call(ing) a raise.

JustPlayingSmart · #6 11-02-2005, 02:58 AM

I check behind a lot too, and I think I do it more than I should. But I would probably still do it here. If villain had spades he isn't calling, and if he has a 3 you're now beat. However, you do still beat a 6 and almost any 8, so value betting here may not be that bad.

Bah. After all this I would probably still check. Usually I am just so happy that I made it to the river with top pair and without getting raised, that I am happy with a T14000 pot. I hate myself.

KneeCo · #7 11-02-2005, 03:12 AM

tournament structures are such that you really have to extract maximum value out of your hands, and I do believe a leak that a lot of players share is losing out on a lot of value on the river.

This hand though, is well played and I think the check behind is advisable simply because there is nothing you can beat that he would call with.

#8 11-02-2005, 03:20 AM

All of his checks and calls tell me he is weak but don't want to get out of the hand since he got a part of it. So, if he had the 3 he would probably bet out on the river so im putting him on either a 6 or an 8 where the 8 is more likely since he is just calling it down. I think your kicker is just fine here so I would make a small bet on the river, maybe around 5000. If he raise me, then im going nuts and ask myself why didnt I just check but nah, I don't think he will raise me here and my eight/king is good.

He could also have the flush draw and tried to take it down after the flop. Not many hands I can see you are behind of here.

EDIT: The check is good too.

JustPlayingSmart · #9 11-02-2005, 04:14 AM

Be careful of making small bets when in position on the river, because you are reopening the action. Obviously, if you bet small here, and faced a raise, you would probably have to fold your hand, and that would make you sick. I wouldn't actually consider 5000 that small though, so that seems like an okay bet. Just make sure the risk, which is getting raised off the hand or having to pay off a check/raise is worth the reward which is your opponent's call, when he makes it.