$33 Party, QQ post flop.

[gumpzilla]

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This flop is one that is highly likely to have hit someone. I have position and the option to take a free card. If I bet the flop and get called or checkraised, I will likely be getting all in by the river which is not what I want to be doing when I am behind.

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I'm not wild about this. If you can acknowledge that getting swung back at on the flop frequently means that you're behind (I agree), why not bet out and fold when you get popped? This will frequently be cheaper than checking down. If you think this flop is really likely to have hit somebody, I don't think I want to plan on calling down this early. I don't think we need to be married to this hand.

[johnnybeef]

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why not bet out and fold when you get popped?

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cuz it keeps the pot smaller. if he bets the turn then i can negotiate with him how much of my stack i am willing to lose on this hand.

[gumpzilla]

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why not bet out and fold when you get popped?

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cuz it keeps the pot smaller. if he bets the turn then i can negotiate with him how much of my stack i am willing to lose on this hand.

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But his turn bet is going to be comparable to your flop bet in most instances. Unless you're planning on folding to that relatively frequently - which is fine, but it sounds like that's not what you're after - the final pot is going to be similar, or worse in the case that you call a river bet as well.

[11t]

I'd bet the flop but as played the river is a check.

Betting the river is pretty bad imo, your hand has showdown value.

[11t]

If you bet the flop and he check/raises all in you fold and get dealt the next hand.

[wuwei]

I bet this flop more often than not. However, there's one important thing that beef seemed to hint at and nobody else really dwelled upon. We're looking at an A high flop with a two flush in diamonds, and we hold the Q of diamonds. By checking behind, we guarantee ourselves a chance to spike that two outer for a set (which we miss if the flop is check raised). The fact that we have a diamond is nice because it means our set will not put a flush on the board. In addition, when a diamond does come on the turn we're now drawing to the second nut flush.

[11t]

I need to start playing in more games where people are check/raising the river with missed diamonds on a paired board.

[gumpzilla]

These are all nice things, wuwei, but I think that generally they're going to be somewhat less important to the play of the hand. The stacks aren't deep enough, I would guess, to make the implied odds of stacking an A with a turned set worth the times we get pushed off the best hand on the turn because we didn't bet out on the flop, but I don't want to call down all the way either. I also think the equity we get from the Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is pretty minor, since if a third diamond comes on the turn and it's bet I'm still not sure we can call all that often.

[durron597]

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I'd bet the flop but as played the river is a check.

Betting the river is pretty bad imo, your hand has showdown value.

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Yeah, it's a value bet.

[durron597]

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I need to start playing in more games where people are check/raising the river with missed diamonds on a paired board.

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I need to start playing in games where people check all three streets with top pair.