Who played this worse

colehard · #1 05-31-2005, 01:03 PM

Not sure if my slow play was the worst mistake here..I was planning a flop check raise.

MP kept saying they were a bad player in chat and they did draw out on me twice when I was betting a decent % of the pot (once rivered a board str8 that matched my str8 for a split and once rivered top two pair to beat my flopped 2 pair)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Button ($36.53)
Hero ($27.6)
BB ($31.9)
UTG ($24.75)
MP ($51.05)
CO ($6.9)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.1.
1 fold, MP calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button calls $0.25, Hero (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($1) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets $2, BB calls $2, MP calls $2, Button calls $2.

River: ($9) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)

 Hero Bet $5 BB Fold, MP raise $20, Button Fold, Hero???

Is this a slow played 2 pair often enough for me to fold? Or is this a str8 or trip kings often enough to call?

The_Bends · #2 05-31-2005, 01:09 PM

Raise all in all day ever day. There are so many hands out there that will do this that you beat.

amead · #3 05-31-2005, 01:17 PM

I think you're about to win a real nice pot.

Only hands that beat you are KK, QQ, 99, KQ, K9, K8, Q9, Q8.

KK/QQ are out. 99 would have thrown in a raise on a draw-heavy board by now. KQ probably would have thrown in a raise instead of open limping.

K9/K8 could have been open-limped, but I'm doubting them since I'd have assumed that MP would have thrown out some sort of bet on the flop with a very co-ordinated board.

Q9/Q8 would have flopped third pair, which could have legitimately been checked around. One would think that picking up their two pair on the turn would have warranted a raise by someone, as the board is still definately scary for two-pair hands.

So which hands would MP have played like this that you beat? JT probably would have raised you up when they made their straight on the turn, with 3 other folks in and presumably someone drawing at the flush. I'm leaning toward MP having the trip kings. KJ/KT would have likely swung at the flop, so I'm thinking it was a scared king that got a little bolder after the flop checked around, and maybe even a suited king in clubs. If I had to pick any one hand that MP might have, I'd go with something like K6 of clubs.

Re-raise and try to double up.

DoubleDown · #4 05-31-2005, 01:20 PM

bet the flop ... if you'd bet the flop on a board like this with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], AKo, JT, etc., then you need to also lead out with a set here.

the other advantage of leading out is that it helps to build the pot (esp if you get raised) ... as it is you are over-betting the turn in hope of trying to build the pot up.

leading with a set disguises its strength well, esp when you lead at pots like this with draws as well. it also helps to build pots, w/o having to rely on opponents inflating the pot and forcing you to C/R (usually a sign of much strength.)

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btw: on the river i'd just call the re-raise as i can see villain making the raise with the str8 here/ possibly trip K's (altho TP should/would have bet the flop.) overboat is def possible tho, which is why i wouldn't pop it back.

kongo_totte · #5 05-31-2005, 01:23 PM

It's hard to say who played it worse without knowing what villian had.

However, If I were hero I'd bet the flop. It's not like you have the deck crippled. That board might have hit alot of people. Check-raising shows so much strength a K might muck, whereas a K might call you down if you lead.

As played, I call the river and expect to be ahead >50% of the time.

colehard · #6 05-31-2005, 06:04 PM

I called and they had a strangely played KQ so mhing

But at least the river call wan't as stupid as I had thought on reflection. I will also bet out on the flop next time - not sure why I didn't here as I usually do. I think they had all been playing scared and folding to my flop bets so I wanted someone to catch up - but I wasn't playing my position appropriately.

BlackRain · #7 05-31-2005, 07:01 PM

So the guy runner runner'ed a miracle then. I think you lose big here whether you lead out or not here b/c villain will be less likely to laydown when he makes 2 pair on the turn. However, leading out on the flop is still the best move imo.

If it was a rainbow flop, slow play might be benficial here but with a 2 flush you have to make the flush draws pay. With an 89 on the flop there is also a good chance that an OESD is out there. You have to make the drawers pay. Or put more succintly, anyone who is behind you at the flop and has a reasonable chance at outdrawing you, you have to make them pay.

amoeba · #8 05-31-2005, 07:09 PM

more aggression. not only does leading out charge draws but it gets money in quicker so that if the flush completes and kills your action, you already got a lot of money in.