A little preflop magic...

#1 10-25-2005, 05:37 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP2 (t1330)
MP3 (t2565)
CO (t4220)
Hero (t3160)
SB (t1940)
BB (t3958)
UTG (t2778)
UTG+1 (t2540)
UTG+2 (t2173)
MP1 (t3071)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls t100, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls t100, MP1 calls t100, 2 folds, CO calls t100, Hero raises to t400, 1 fold, BB calls t300, UTG calls t300, UTG+2 raises to t900, MP1 folds, CO folds, Hero???

what do I do in these situations. I obviously have to raise, but I cant raise enough to really narrow down the field without really throwing in a ton of chips, and I cant do that with KJs?!?! Do I just fold?

ilya · #2 10-25-2005, 05:58 AM

Why do you "obviously" have to raise? What's so terrible about calling? In fact I like calling much better than raising.

#3 10-25-2005, 06:01 AM

to thin out the field. since this hand isnt like small connectors or small pp, and with a large field its hard to know Im ahead, I need to thin out the field.

however, in this case you may be right, since nothing I can reasonably do will likely thin out the field.

ilya · #4 10-25-2005, 06:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
to thin out the field. since this hand isnt like small connectors or small pp, and with a large field its hard to know Im ahead, I need to thin out the field.

however, in this case you may be right, since nothing I can reasonably do will likely thin out the field.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thinning out the field makes sense when your hand figures to be in good shape against that one guy who calls you. You can't really expect that to be the case with a hand like KJs IMO.

Slow Play Ray · #5 10-25-2005, 07:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hero???

[/ QUOTE ]

...folds.

And like everyone else already said, should have just limped.

stokken · #6 10-25-2005, 08:07 AM

Your hand has some atributes to it that fares well with few opponents and some that fares better multiway.

If you are going to raise, with this many limpers you are laying more then 2,5:1 for any caller here and even better for the bb. If bb chooses the call, then the next one is getting 4:1 etc. I dont believe in raising to thin the field, I believe in raising when I believe I have the better of it or when my read tells me I might take down the pot without a flopp if I contribute a raise of some certain magnitude. Your raise is way to small to accomplish that.
First I would simply elect to call pf.

As the hand played out you are getting 5:1 to call, this raise is peculiar as well, he is not isolating, the only achievment is getting more money in the pot.The pot is certainly big enough compared to the stacks to go all in at, and enough players have shown interest to pick a fight. Possibly you are getting as much as 7:1 if the other two comes along, which I believe they will, just about right to hope for a flushpossibility. Both gave up idle opportunity to reraise and a few hundred more is not going to make a difference. A push after your first raise seems wierd, but dependent upon circumstances, type of tournament etc I might call a push if one comes from behind. You need to flopp strong, but still have chips to work with and should release the hand if the flopp misses: you are hoping to flopp str8,flush trips and two pairs, made,draws or combo, in other words you are praying for alot [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. I would expect a push from reraiser postflopp.You must decide now, if the 400 extra is worth it, choice of preference [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

DarrenX · #7 10-25-2005, 10:24 AM

I agree standard move is limping, but if you've been projecting a tight image, I don't mind a raise occasionally, but it has to be much more substantial- 700 or 800, with 4 limpers already in.

However, we're not in that situation. As the action has played out, UTG+2 has made an odd play, limping SECOND in, then reraising after 2 cold callers, essentially committing his stack to this hand. I put his range on 22-JJ, AQ, maybe KQs, AJs... It would be a pretty ballzy move to limp second in with a big pair HOPING for a raise... any read on this guy? If he's solid, AND you (or he) has observed there's not many unraised pots preflop, I'm letting it go. Average/donk read, I'd say there's a great chance you're an underdog but very close to a coin flip against his range. With all this dead money, I think I'm putting it all in, expecting to see a medium pair.