88 BB 5-10 against loony tunes cast

kamelion44 · #1 09-15-2005, 08:08 AM

5-10 SH, Hero has 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in BB, UtG is 72/51 maniac, MP1 is 80/4 LP.

UtG raises, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero bets, UtG raises, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero bets, UtG raises, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero checks, UtG checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, UtG calls.

#2 09-15-2005, 08:19 AM

Flop bet is ok, with UTG (auto)raising, driving out MP.
I would check/call the turn though, and when facing 2 cold you have an easy fold.
But the way you played it, I would fold the river.

kamelion44 · #3 09-15-2005, 08:29 AM

Well the maniac could have just about anything, so I wanted to use the turn to drive two into the LP, and make the flush draw pay. Also, if I had checked the turn, it would have been one bet back to me...you advocate folding to the maniac's bet and the LP's flat-call???

deepsquat · #4 09-15-2005, 08:33 AM

anyone 3bet this pf? we would have to have some pf equity edge despite being oop. If maniac caps then thats cool, if he folds MP (which i doubt), even better.

Flop and turn are good.

You have to call this river imo. MP could be taking a stab at it with A4o.

#5 09-15-2005, 08:35 AM

No, I said I would just check/call the turn
But I guess i'm being too passive here [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

deepsquat · #6 09-15-2005, 08:37 AM

Folding this hand anywhere on this board is awful. The river would be an easy fold if it went utg bet, mp raise...

Betting the flop and turn is good as we will almost always have UTG beat and autoraising our "donkbet" is charging himself and MP1 to draw.

UTG will have a 10 here almost never and MP1 would raise the turn if he had a 10 or anything better than 88.

kamelion44 · #7 09-15-2005, 08:37 AM

I had the same thought, deep. When I posted this hand, my main concerns were about preflop and river. I'm pretty confident in my flop and turn lines, though I'm definitely open to other lines of thought here. Another 2+2er told me on IM that he thought the river was a fold, with the LP read. I guess we're hoping for missed hearts here?

kamelion44 · #8 09-15-2005, 08:38 AM

Yeah sorry didn't read your response closely enough.

deepsquat · #9 09-15-2005, 08:41 AM

i really think LP could be betting anything here. If he is ultrapassive and never bets without a hand then you could fold here but it was checked to him on the river and ive seen all sorts of players bet with nothing trying to pinch the pot.

If UTG was a better player you could consider raising MP1 on the river to possibly fold UTG's 99, JJ or QQ but we will always have UTG beat here imo, thats a play for a different UTG and its tough to know what MP1 couild be playing here. All in all i think that this call would be profitable but you will prob see Kx [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] from MP1

kamelion44 · #10 09-15-2005, 10:39 AM

Even so though, I still like betting turn, when I'm almost certain the LAG will raise again, facing the LP with two. He'll probably call anyways, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't do it. I'm ahead of a big chunk of LAG's range of hands and LP's range. Having said that, can I still find a fold on the river? I tend to agree with deepsquat here, that I have to call, but a few respected 2p2ers have said otherwise...I will grant that the LP's value bet is very very bad news. It ended up that the LAG had K2s and the LP had QQ, but again, I think these results are nowhere near indicative of their average hands in this situation.