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  #101  
Old 08-10-2005, 01:37 PM
KaneKungFu123 KaneKungFu123 is offline
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Default Re: GiftofGab, Spirit Rock, Hassan Slask etc.

His style is going to create more variance than normal, but to be down 22 buy-ins on 27k hands is pretty insane. i doubt he was playing his A Game for that strech.

[ QUOTE ]
Wow.

At the very least his winrate is suspect, because if he was just dominating (like 10PTBB/100) such a run (even given the high variance) would be extremely rare.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #102  
Old 08-10-2005, 01:38 PM
capone0 capone0 is offline
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Default Re: GiftofGab, Spirit Rock, Hassan Slask etc.

Was yesterday included? I guess of his 80k stack sometimes he's in for 90k ^^.
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  #103  
Old 08-10-2005, 02:29 PM
mythrilfox mythrilfox is offline
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Default Re: GiftofGab, Spirit Rock, Hassan Slask etc.

No, not like that. I was curious what he had to say about poker.
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  #104  
Old 08-10-2005, 02:35 PM
Rotating Rabbit Rotating Rabbit is offline
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Default Re: GiftofGab, Spirit Rock, Hassan Slask etc.

A quick analogy: In mathematics, the best way for a beginner to learn is to figure out stuff for himself/herself. The only way to truly understand something is to derive it unaided.

As a child (<10), I spent ages trying to figure out all sorts of things with integer numbers, patterns of primes (heh)/ factorisation, powers, modulos, and figuring out some stuff for myself.

Now having just done a masters in maths, i can say the only thing i'm actually good at is number theory, the tree branching out from what i got stuck into as a kid. Sure i'm competant at all areas of maths that ive been taught over the years. For example, I can do all sorts of stuff on calculus, and it would seem that I understand it, but i know that deep down, if I were presented with a new & monster difficult problem that required true intuition and insight, I would probably not get out. Where as if it were in number theory, I would stand a good chance.

I think its the same with 2+2. If I read the solution (or likely best move) to a turn-decision say, from soneone like diablo, I may read it and think about it offline and then think 'yeah, I understand that', but I will only understand it up to a point.

Once you've seen the solution to a problem in anything, maths, poker, whatever, you've forever destroyed the benefit of trying to figure it out yourself.

Sure if its a packaged move, and you can apply it 20 times a day on your 8-table 2/4nl game this is great, but 50/100 is clearly another ball game.
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  #105  
Old 08-10-2005, 03:57 PM
theBruiser500 theBruiser500 is offline
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Default Re: GiftofGab, Spirit Rock, Hassan Slask etc.

[ QUOTE ]
diablo and bruiser are huge LAG's

[/ QUOTE ]

what we are? i didn't know that
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  #106  
Old 08-10-2005, 04:07 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: GiftofGab, Spirit Rock, Hassan Slask etc.

fim, now I will actually get on topic instead of bashing. I think that the answer to your question, in addition to those things ML4 discussed, is that what separates good even expert players from great players, is their thought process in evaluating a situation and what things they think about. That, combined with technically accurate knowledge, both mathematical and otherwise, that can be found is error-free books, is what elevates them. And besides their playing proficiency under a wide variety of game conditions, they also excel at bankroll (not money) management. All of these things are covered to some degree in Barry Greenstein's new book, which despite the fluffy color photos is well worth reading.

Also I think that it is true that many of those top players have in the past lurked/read here a lot, just not posted. In fact I believe it possible that the lurker/poster ratio could be as high as 10+/1, most of whom don't feel competent enough to post, but also including very good players who are just selfish and want to take but never give.
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  #107  
Old 08-10-2005, 04:10 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: GiftofGab, Spirit Rock, Hassan Slask etc.

fim, now I will actually get on topic instead of bashing. I think that the answer to your question, in addition to those things ML4 discussed, is that what separates good even expert players from great players, is their thought process in evaluating a situation and what things they think about. That, combined with technically accurate knowledge, both mathematical and otherwise that can be found is error-free books, along with psychological intuition, is what elevates them. And besides their playing proficiency under a wide variety of game conditions, they also excel at bankroll (not money) management. All of these things are covered to some degree in Barry Greenstein's new book, which despite the fluffy color photos is well worth reading.

Also I think that it is true that many of those top players have in the past lurked/read here a lot, just not posted. In fact I believe it possible that the lurker/poster ratio could be as high as 10+/1, most of whom don't feel competent enough to post, but also including very good players who are just selfish and want to take but never give.
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  #108  
Old 08-10-2005, 05:27 PM
The Gift Of Gab The Gift Of Gab is offline
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Default Re: GiftofGab, Spirit Rock, Hassan Slask etc.

Since the thread has my name on it, I feel like I should say something.

[ QUOTE ]
- those who dominate the highest and hardest games do, in general, not follow the same learning pattern (read books, discuss hands with poker community, analyze EV etc.) as those who beat most other games.

[/ QUOTE ]
Believe me, the best players in all big games do all these things. The main reason I don't post my hands here is that I don't want to expose my play or what I think of others' play when I know some of my opponents will read what I write.
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  #109  
Old 08-10-2005, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: GiftofGab, Spirit Rock, Hassan Slask etc.

Why does it matter?
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  #110  
Old 08-10-2005, 06:12 PM
TheWorstPlayer TheWorstPlayer is offline
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Default Re: GiftofGab, Spirit Rock, Hassan Slask etc.

[ QUOTE ]
The main reason I don't post my hands here is that I don't want to expose my play or what I think of others' play when I know some of my opponents will read what I write.

[/ QUOTE ]
Out of curiosity, is this also why you don't respond to many posted hands or is it just a time consumption issue or something else entirely? Do you feel that El Diablo, Bruiser, Matt Flynn, etc. are giving up EV by posting and replying to hands?
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