Wrong spot for a turn c-r??

[DcifrThs]

real laggy game

KK in the BB

one open raise in MP, one cold call in the CO and i reraise all call.

Qs7sXy

i bet out am raised, one cold caller and i call intending to get these lags to call a few turn bets instead of the measly flop ones.

turn is 3c.

i check intending to raise and reraise if necessary AND ITS CHECKED AROUND....damn i misplayed that one!

does anybody else think that this laggy game is still straightforward reraise the flop bet out the turn kinda deal? i was trying to make them pay as much as possible and given the nature of the game i felt it was doable by calling, then checking and raising the turn (obviously as per above). nothing i can remember made me more upset than having it checked around [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

-Barron

[andyfox]

You say you wanted to trap "these" lag's on the turn. But if I'm reading your post right, there were only two opponents who saw the turn. With the flop raiser cold-called, and the flop containing a flush draw, I usually prefer to hit 'em over a head with a hammer until they show me the error of my ways. Heck, they still might raise you with a draw if bet out on the turn. Even the lag's tend to posture on the flop; there's no guarantee they'll continue their ag ways if you check to them, although they might well consider their l ways if you bet. Plus a flush card or a card that pairs the board or an ace might come on the turn which inhibits the action even if they had originally intended to bet.

BTW, I would think that if there's nothing you can remember that upset you as much as having this checked around on the turn, you're in pretty good shape. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[MrGo]

If this hand was heads up, I'd go for a checkraise on the turn. But with more than 2 players in, I 3-bet here to get more money in the pot, then lead the turn. I think by checking the flop around. someone is looking for a spade to complete their flush.

[CrackerZack]

After whiffing a couple of times on these and getting played for a free card, i stopped trying on any board with a realistic draw.

[jimchapter]

[ QUOTE ]
If this hand was heads up, I'd go for a checkraise on the turn. But with more than 2 players in, I 3-bet here to get more money in the pot, then lead the turn. I think by checking the flop around. someone is looking for a spade to complete their flush.

[/ QUOTE ]


Would you lead the turn if a spade came? If you did and were raised, what next?

[Clarkmeister]

You played it fine. I actually think this is an outstanding spot for the checkraise.

[MrGo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If this hand was heads up, I'd go for a checkraise on the turn. But with more than 2 players in, I 3-bet here to get more money in the pot, then lead the turn. I think by checking the flop around. someone is looking for a spade to complete their flush.

[/ QUOTE ]


Would you lead the turn if a spade came? If you did and were raised, what next?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd check the turn because of my position. If the turn was bet then raised to me, its an easy fold. If it is one bet to me, I call to the river.

Where in orlando are ya? I used to live in Celebration.

[DcifrThs]

andy,

when i say "these lags" i was really referring to the game in general...there were only 2 in the hand...but one whom i was quite sure (read over 90% sure) would bet the turn in that spot. i also put the cold caller tentatively on the flush draw and figured that the first lag would be more likely to bet to prevent a free card coming off for the cold caller thus getting a bet and a call for $30 a piece before i popped 'em.

this way, i'd make them pay more per person than if i reraised and bet out. but the reason i posted this is precisely because in retrospect it may have been best to reraise and bet out...but i think the plays were VERY close in my mind and when i executed it i thought i was certainly right for doing so.

only AFTER the checking through did i "reconsider" my play and decide to post the hand...

andy, you disagree, cracker disagrees and clark likes my play...so it must not be as clear cut because good players go both ways on it...

i'll side w/ clark though since it was my play [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ... thus all you can go to "h" "e" double hockey sticks lol

seriously though, if i reraise and bet out the turn i also might LOSE the initial flop raiser (highly unlikely but still might) if i bet out the turn and won't get paid off on the river...similarly you can argue, exending the above, that he'd fold for the c-r on the turn but in that instance i'd have made the late position guy pay 2 big bets since he at least bet for me to raise...

comments?

thanks again
-Barron

[skp]

It's not a terrible spot for a turn C/R but a lot depends on how you think the flop raiser will read the flop coldcaller's hand. That is, if you just call the flop, the flop raiser will not be worried about you but may be worried about the guy who coldcalled him on a raggedy board (albeit with a flush draw).

The C/R attempt works way more often when you are headsup in this spot. In a 3 way spot, you have to have a good read of the raiser's read on the coldcaller (even if his read is different from your read of the coldcaller).

Also, as Andy pointed out, cards may come off on the turn that inhibit your opponents from betting even if they liked their hand on the flop and were planning on betting the turn on a blank.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, as Andy pointed out, cards may come off on the turn that inhibit your opponents from betting even if they liked their hand on the flop and were planning on betting the turn on a blank.

[/ QUOTE ]

THIS i think is andys best point and holds much water.

if anything should have prevented my c-r i think it would have been this. Any ace or spade (4+11 from my point of view) would not be a good thing to c-r a bet for.

THUS, i feel i was wrong and should have 3bet and bet out because 15/47 times there will be a card falling the inhibits the action or at least makes me hesitant to c-r.

thank you guys again
-Barron