B&M Player I Can't Figure Out

[jwg152]

I sat to the immediate right of this player for about 5 hrs. at the 20/40 holdem game at the Borgata. After talking with him extensively and seeing him play, here are some facts:

1. early 30's
2. regular in 20/40 40/80 80/160 at the Borgata - and appeared to be very respected by the locals for his play
3. well educated
4. raised UTG with q3s - told me it was to get action on his good cards from EP (played to showdown lost)
5. 3-bet J8s from MP (played to showdown won - 2 pair flop - filled on river)
6. Raised with AA in LP, called by BB, flop was A-rag-rag, BB checks, he checks, turn is a broadway card, BB checks, he checks gain, river is another broadway, BB checks - he bets, doesn't get called - shows me AA before he mucks it.
7. told me does not play internet poker
8. gave me a good tip on a small tell that I had - he was right and it was helpful.
9. he seemed very smart

What gives?

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
I sat to the immediate right of this player for about 5 hrs. at the 20/40 holdem game at the Borgata. After talking with him extensively and seeing him play, here are some facts:

1. early 30's
2. regular in 20/40 40/80 80/160 at the Borgata - and appeared to be very respected by the locals for his play
3. well educated
4. raised UTG with q3s - told me it was to get action on his good cards from EP (played to showdown lost)
5. 3-bet J8s from MP (played to showdown won - 2 pair flop - filled on river)
6. Raised with AA in LP, called by BB, flop was A-rag-rag, BB checks, he checks, turn is a broadway card, BB checks, he checks gain, river is another broadway, BB checks - he bets, doesn't get called - shows me AA before he mucks it.
7. told me does not play internet poker
8. gave me a good tip on a small tell that I had - he was right and it was helpful.
9. he seemed very smart

What gives?

[/ QUOTE ]

Plays #6 and #7 make some semblance of sense in the right situation. As for the rest, such as 3-betting with J8s? I have serious doubts that someone who makes such plays with any frequency is a winning player. A 3-bet with this hand is 1-1.5BB wasted, depending on how well he plays postflop. That would kill the hourly win rate of even the best of players.

Then again, what the hell do I know? I'm just a lowly 2-4 online and 6-12 live player.

[pipster]

I would imagine many of his plays are calculated decisions... High limit players expect an UTG raise from a solid player to be AK, AA, KK, QQ and will fold almost any A/rag, etc. So maybe it was a blind steal from UTG, or some kind of draw, or some kind of image play like he said.

The J/8 could have been to try to blow someone off the hand on the flop if they missed, or just mixing it up some. The fact he was able to show it down for a full house could easily put someone on tilt.

A lot of players will tell you that if you ONLY 3 bet with major hands, and ONLY play monsters UTG, and ALWAYS check if you miss the flop, etc. You will get run over by the ones paying attention. So I assume this was what he was doing, mixing it up.

I mix it up in tournaments and NL all the time, because if I catch someone I can generally stack them with a surpise (such as play 3/4 suited for a raise UTG and flopping a straight vs their AK with top pair). I am sure he doesn't 3-bet J/8 suited, or raise UTG with Q/3 often... Just enough to keep everyone on their toes.

[xniNja]

I agree mostly with what pipster said. In higher limit games many incredibly good players seem like straight up maniacs. I'm not surprised by the 3 bet J8s, or checking the aces- to induce a bet. If he is in fact a great player & respected by the regulars, it's probably because he has learned the fine art of timing. Knowing when to 3-bet garbage and when to lay-down the 2nd nuts differentiates the great from the good. I wish I were there.

[pipster]

Amen... I would love to sit behind a true master of the game and watch every hand and discuss with him what he was thinking when he did that. TV does not do justice to the nuances of the game and the thoughts behind the bets.

[moomoocow]

Here's another possible story - He's independently incredible wealthy - does not need poker money. He knows how to play well and (as we can clearly see) is quite fearless. This ties is with the Q-3 hand (I know ppl who always see the flop with this, and 2-7o ... not at 80/160, but still). Also ties in with kindly revealing tell information. 3-betting J-8s jsut looks like a bad play which paid off, though.

[somapopper]

I think some unorthodox plays are good, but if he's a. respected, and b. telling you he's trying to appear looser than he intends to be, what's the point?

I wouldn't quickly discount if people respect him in a fairly big game though (I'm tempted to say that they just act like they respect him because he's the biggest fish around, but I don't actually think that's the case).

anyway, yeah, I dunno about this either.

[mrkilla]

2 - maybe hes respected because he donates
or
he showed you agressive play with trash and weak play with Ace's...maybe hes setting you/others up?

[somapopper]

[ QUOTE ]
2 - maybe hes respected because he donates
or
he showed you agressive play with trash and weak play with Ace's...maybe hes setting you/others up?

[/ QUOTE ]

doesn't it require a lot of faith in the OP on his part though? He'd have to assume that OP would see his explanations as bad, and assume that they were deception (he's actually going to do that again with q3) and then hope to be paid off on the I think he thinks I think he thinks I have q3 because I tricked him into thinking I think he thinks I have AA which I actually do have. That seems sorta absurd with a player you just sat down with.

[Percula]

Reminds me of one of the prop players here in AZ.

Very, very similar play. When I asked one time why the slow down on the AAA, he said "I dont want to run anyone over, they are the customer after all.".

The loose/crazy play also fits, when asked "I like to mix it up, give the customer a chance to win something before I get ahead, makes them feel better."

He is always giving the left and right players "tips", like showing them tells, betting strat and the like.

He is also very respected by the regulars.

Makes me wonder if he is a prop...