KK He Minraised Me twice

KingDan · #1 07-17-2005, 01:25 AM

First hand of a $50+5 on PP

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 raises to t30, 1 fold, Hero raises to t85, 4 folds, MP1 raises to t140, Hero calls t55.

Flop: (t302.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets t325.

Other than AK/AQ what else does he play like this? This just screams of AA.

I did not think of using poker prophecy at the time, so I know what you know.

ryanvick · #2 07-17-2005, 01:31 AM

yeah, it screams AA, although I've never laid down KK, only QQ in this spot. I just get it in and hope he's a overplaying something. In a more crucial spot during a MTT I might lay it down here. But with the frequency that you play sng's I think playing KK in +ev even to these sketchy min raises. He might be feeling you out with QQ or who knows. But I dont lay KK or AA. Although in a step 5 I might.
--I know limits shouldn't matter, but when I'm playing way over my normal limits (200 or more instead of 30-50) I might make this lay, even though like I said in dif. thread, very good players push with aces on top of a raise or flat call, b/c this is such an obv. telegraph of AA. But then this could be used as a skill bluff (have not seen anyone advanced enough to pull this reverse move yet)

durron597 · #3 07-17-2005, 01:33 AM

Dont fold KK ever preflop, and that is not a flop where you should consider folding.

The Don · #4 07-17-2005, 01:37 AM

I'd move in. The big bet on the flop seems like he missed with AK or is unsure of his AQ. He certainly wouldn't make this flop bet with QQ... could be AA though. Seems 50/50 between AK/AQ and AA. Given that you already have money in the pot I think you have to move in.

wiggs73 · #5 07-17-2005, 01:39 AM

I actually don't think this screams AA because I don't think AA open min-raises during the first level of blinds, unless the owner of said hand is a complete donk. I think this is a very odd way to play any hand, but I think you are ahead here way too much to slow down.

My lines for this hand would be to:
1) Make a substantial re-re-raise.
2) Push. This would be my first choice if it were an 800 chip SNG.
3) Call and try to get all-in on a non-ace flop.

ryanvick · #6 07-17-2005, 01:40 AM

I agree except when this fishy situation occurs... but that's just me. I need a way to track when these min raises come on top of one of my solid raises and see how many times it is AA, then (in dif. thread, this is pop. subject tonigh) if it was there more than half the time I might start laying in this spot unless I thoughtthe player didnt have a clue (just from note or his play sofar in the sng)

durron597 · #7 07-17-2005, 01:41 AM

If you really want to consider folding here, make a note on this player after he shows you AA. Then you can fold to this player.

Besides, if he has AA you can still flop a set.

KingDan · #8 07-17-2005, 01:43 AM

No way in hell did I consider folding this preflop.

If he has aces I am getting the odds needs to try to flop and win all his chips. Also, if he has aces I am more than likely to hit giving party because party likes action flops.

ryanvick · #9 07-17-2005, 01:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I actually don't think this screams AA because I don't think AA open min-raises during the first level of blinds, unless the owner of said hand is a complete donk. I think this is a very odd way to play any hand, but I think you are ahead here way too much to slow down.

My lines for this hand would be to:
1) Make a substantial re-re-raise.
2) Push. This would be my first choice if it were an 800 chip SNG.
3) Call and try to get all-in on a non-ace flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

true, but at 50's i wouldnt doubt he's a complete donk, i've seen that utg or early min raise so often b/c they're scared of only winning the blinds.

-but like i said, at my normal game I'm going in with this, but if this was a bigtime game I might (not probably, but maybe, would take some thought) lay it. How many times did I read cardplayer and see someone lost KK to AA (although those better players didnt do a sketchy min min raise, but a pot reraise, and yes was 5600 players so it would happen more often), but still wouldn't be an automatic all-in hand if this was not a normal game for me.

ryanvick · #10 07-17-2005, 01:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No way in hell did I consider folding this preflop.

If he has aces I am getting the odds needs to try to flop and win all his chips. Also, if he has aces I am more than likely to hit giving party because party likes action flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, yeah party it's like 50/50, but yeah, taking notes would be good like pre. poster said above you, and yes if they min raise i dont lay it right there, b/c you are def getting odds, i call lots of pp's on implied odds when they underbet big pair. But then, I keep a mental note on flop, just b/c it comes rags and he bets half pot, I dont need to push, in fact, I may get away from it here.
But again, this is just what I recall being a trend, I need to get hard stats to see if my memory serves me correct or is distorting what the min-min raised has usually meant.