turn a set of queens but dont know if I like it - Page 3

45suited · #21 07-12-2005, 01:00 PM

Okay, I usually play SNGs so obviously I'd push with my set here. This is a serious question, no sarcasm intended:

With hero's stack, do you really think even the best of the best players in the world don't push the river here?

I mean, maybe I'm biased because of my SNG background, but in over 2000 SNGs, I think I've lost to set over set something like 10 times. I push here on the river.

DWarrior · #22 07-12-2005, 01:07 PM

The only problem I can think of with this is pre-flop. As I thought more about the hand, the post-flop play began to look more and more correct (except the river play, perhaps bet smaller or just check-call a reasonable amount, players with a set of aces seem to either bet small or go all-in on the river, from what I've seen, so you save yourself money)

Back to pre-flop. You re-raised the villain and got some random guy calling your raise and then you get re-raised by the villain. When an original raiser re-raises, I learned the hard way back in January that they most likely have AA or KK, but sometimes they'll do it with AK, or QQ or little worse, so I prefer to either dump or go all-in with AK, KK, or AA.

With QQ, I'd probably just fold and save myself the trouble. The only problem in this case is that you're playing with $90, so you have more implied odds to go on.

Still...would a pre-flop fold be a terrible play in this case? I've had a number of times when I folded AQ, QQ, and JJ and then saw some fool race all his chips off to AA or KK

Jocke_F · #23 07-12-2005, 01:12 PM

well I was expecting to be behind here, but I called for set value, and when I got it on the turn I still didnt like it cause of the ace : )

45suited · #24 07-12-2005, 01:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Would someone with set of aces really check through the flop and the turn being checked to him both times?

[/ QUOTE ]

I take it from your question that you don't think so. Neither do I.

Jocke_F · #25 07-12-2005, 01:14 PM

the thing is I dont see him calling if I push the river then

45suited · #26 07-12-2005, 01:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the thing is I dont see him calling if I push the river then

[/ QUOTE ]

What if he is a donkey playing AK? My guess is he has KK here and will fold. How did the hand turn out?

Jocke_F · #27 07-12-2005, 01:38 PM

villain turned over the two black aces.
I am still not sure if checking the turn was the best thing to do or not, but what I do know is that I could have saved some money by not firing a pot size on the river, if I had bet half the pot I would have seriously increased his willingness to call with KK or JJ and it might not have cost me as much when he raises with his aces.

DWarrior · #28 07-12-2005, 02:59 PM

Yeah, that's why I think pot-sized bets are a bit too committing, I like 2/3

As for the turn, what really ruined this hand is the idiot UTG, who made the pot so damn big. You basically couldn't bet on the flop to test the waters, and a turn bet would have resulted in you getting all your chips in by the river, since if you bet the same $20, had he flat-called, he would probably push you in on the river, and if he min-raised, the same thing would happen.

Without the UTG, it would make things easier, as the pot would only be around $15, and you may have considered raising more. When I looked at this, I tried to think what I would do based on those actions and my normal raise here would be $3 to $3.50, since it's easier to fold if he puts in a huge raise, and the UTG won't be as willing to stick around.

I know I fell for similar situations on more than one occasion, though I'm able to let go of them, so I'm getting better. As I said before, I'd even fold this if I had less tahn $80 on the table, what makes this complicated are the implied odds and the idiot UTG.

I really like this post though, it made me think quite a bit. I'm not a frequent visitor of 2+2, but I think I will become one after reading participating in this thread.