really weird AJ hand 3/6

I look down to see A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the small blind. 5 loose limpers, I raise, BB calls, all the limpers call.

7 to the flop, 14SB.

Flop comes 862, I have ace high and probably not the best hand, 6 outs at best, probably 3, so I check. It gets checked around.

Turn comes, and it's a straight card, maybe a 4, i think a 4, but it coulda been a 5. I don't think it was a 7, but it coulda been.

Checked around to the button who bet. He was a donk who once called someone with queen high no draw on all streets, so I raise.

[cold_cash]

I think you got the flop right.

[JinX11]

I don't raise this pre-flop. Even with loose limpers. Your hand doesn't play well against many players. Creating a big pot gives them better implied odds to try and draw out. AJs, yes, raise. Big off-suit hands, complete and look for a favorable flop.

Turn: wasn't a good turn for you. I fold. Next hand.

[hobbsmann]

Don't raise the preflop.

Bet the flop since you raised. Good things happen when you bet.

Turn might be good if button is overly aggresive, but I don't see you having the best hand very often. A fold is probably your best option though. You need to discount your overcard outs and given that fact that you are not closing the action and the pot is laying you 8:1 just fold and move on the next hand.

Would you open raise this UTG? Why is being in the SB different? Would you raise A10s here? Or from the BB? Do I not have an equity edge?

What does betting the flop accomplish? None of my opponents in this game will be incorrectly folding a pair or a gutshot, and I think it is pretty unlikely I hold the best hand.

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you open raise this UTG? Why is being in the SB different?

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously?

Seriously.

[hobbsmann]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you open raise this UTG? Why is being in the SB different? Would you raise A10s here? Or from the BB? Do I not have an equity edge?

[/ QUOTE ]
yes. because there are now 5 limpers. yes. yes. yes, but there is more to it than that, namely your hand doesn't play very well this multiway and controling the pot size and waiting for a favorable flop allow you to make up the small amount of equity you sacrifice by not raising preflop.

[ QUOTE ]
What does betting the flop accomplish? None of my opponents in this game will be incorrectly folding a pair or a gutshot, and I think it is pretty unlikely I hold the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is more debatable than preflop, but by betting you allow people incorrectly fold hands that could profitably call and you actually might have the best hand. Stranger things have happened than the majority of the field folding to a flop bet here.

[Hamlet]

The big difference between raising this UTG and raising in the SB is that the UTG raise may thin the field. The SB raise is almost surely going to be called for all the limpers.

So you can raise for two reasons UTG-- to thin the field and for value. In the SB, you can raise only for value.

I don't agree with everyone else that raising is neccessarily a bad play though. A lot depends on how loose the "loose" limpers actually are. Are they the any Ace, any two face, and any two suited types? Or are they 83o? cool! types.

If they are likely to play rag offsuit hands, I can't advocate not raising. However, if they only play about 30-40% of their hands, I can see waiting to see the flop first.

Personally, I think the pot manipulation ideas that advocate keeping the pot small against truely bad players are over-rated. People seem to forget that those giant pot odds can work in your favor as well. Since the pot is now so big, you have odds to draw when you wouldn't have if you hadn't raised. You'll win some monster pots with the river gutshot that you would have folded had you not raised pre-flop.

If your opponents just play too much suited trash though, you really don't gain that much by raising pre-flop. You're out of position and your hand isn't really all that strong.


[ QUOTE ]
Would you open raise this UTG? Why is being in the SB different? Would you raise A10s here? Or from the BB? Do I not have an equity edge?

What does betting the flop accomplish? None of my opponents in this game will be incorrectly folding a pair or a gutshot, and I think it is pretty unlikely I hold the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I raise UTG what hands fold that I want to fold? I don't see it eliminating any better hands. I don't think AQ or 99 is going to fold to my raise.

When I raise on the SB, everyone is forced to play against me. And I like to get the money in before they realize the flop isn't going to hit them.


As to the turn play, I didn't think he needed anything to bet. He was already an idiot (prev. hand), he had the button, and had checked the flop. I raised, everyone folded to him, he mucked, and I took the pot down.