"Did you intend to raise, or just call?"

[M.B.E.]

Playing 15/30 at the Wynn, I open-raised two off the button and the button three-bet. The big blind put in $45 from his stack. I mucked. Then the dealer, who had been rearranging his tray or something, said to the big blind, "You realize you were already in for $15? Did you intend to raise to $60, or just call?" He responded, "I just wanted to call," and took back three red chips. I protested that the money had to stay in the pot, and the floor was called for a ruling. The dealer explained that he had moved the $15 big blind to the side, which may have confused the player, and also that he (the dealer) had not announced any raise before I folded. The ruling was that the big blind had just called (not four-bet), and the floorman told me that it was my responsibility to protect my cards until I knew whether or not the player behind me had raised.

Does that ruling make any sense at all?

[Photoc]

The floorman ruling is both final and correct on this one. The dealer should have been paying more attention to the action. That's why they "should" fix a rack or get a count when they first get into the box or between hands. And yes, it is a players responsibility to protect your own hand which includes making sure where and what the action is at the moment.

[Lawrence Ng]

Hey MBE,

This has happened on a few occasions at the HI as well, where the BB meant to call, but put extra in. The correct ruling here is to give it back to the player since the dealer did not announce a re-raise.

Lawrence

[AngusThermopyle]

Terrible ruling. A player put in enough chips for a raise. There was action behind him. His action is binding.

[sekrah]

I agree with you, I thought I was in the twilight zone for a minute with the people agreeing with the floor.

If the person behind him quickly calls, they must pull both bets out because he didn't know there was a raise?!

It's the player's responsibility to follow the action.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
That's why they "should" fix a rack or get a count when they first get into the box or between hands

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a pet peeve of mine. THe dealer should have a count before he sits done and should be able to fix the rack by feel without looking down.

[ QUOTE ]
yes, it is a players responsibility to protect your own hand which includes making sure where and what the action is at the moment.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why the big blinds vhips should stay in the pot. The dealer should not have moved his blind and when the big blind raised the dealer should not have asked him if this is what he really wanted to do. 15-30 is not a high limit game, but it is big enough that there should be an assumption that the players have played in the past. The dealer announcing or not announcing the raise makes no difference.

[Jeffage]

This is incorrect. If the BB's mistaken action causes action behind him (as in, someone to fold thinking the pot has been reraised), he can't take it back. He really should know how much he is putting in the pot considering he posted the big anyway. Also, the correct ruling on this was made in a 10-20 Omaha8 1/2 Kill game I played at Wynn. It was a non-kill hand...two players called, one raised and the next guy tossed in like 35. He thought it was a 15-30 hand and was coldcalling a raise (with one chip extra by mistake). The next person mucked when he saw what was interpreted as a reraise. The guy tried to take his re-raise back but was told he couldn't because his action forced the guy behind him to fold already. Too bad, so sad.

Jeff

[AngusThermopyle]

Edit: no longer valid

[Photoc]

I was mistaken in my post. Then again, I was half drunk and extremely tired when I read and wrote my reply last night. Yes, the bb caused action behind him, therefor his bet is binding. That is the ruling that should have been made.

[M.B.E.]

At the end of the hand, the player in the big blind showed 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]; he looked at me and said "See? Not a raising hand, I just wanted to call." He won the pot because an 8 hit the flop and the button had AK unimproved.

Later, the BB said to me "I saved you money; you couldn't have beaten my 8 anyway, could you?" That was true (I had KJ) but of course I didn't tell him that.