QQ on a KKx flop

[fizzleboink]

Well Villain has shown infinite strength so far, so I'm putting him on AA (6 combos), AK (8 combos), and KK (1 combo) that beat you. JJ and (maybe?) TT are the hands you beat. Since you're losing more than 50% of the time here based on those hands, I'd say a call down is the best option.

[crownjules]

If we put villain on reasonable 3-betting hands, you're behind:

AA - 6 ways
KK - 1 way
AK - 8 ways
Total = 15

You're ahead:

JJ - 6 ways
TT - 6 ways
Total = 12

So you'll lose a little more often then winning. Given that, I'd just call down to minimize your losses when you are behind. Of course, if you hit a Q then go hog wild.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
i would try a 3-bet before calling down, but it's close. he might also be doing this with JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

try a bayesian analysis on what hands he could have here.. are we ahead on average?

*edit* cj did it as i typed [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

if he's bluffing or getting aggro with JJ, we want him to continue to do so.. not be allowed to fold easily.

[Fantam]

I noticed that no one suggested that folding would be a reasonable option.

I find that reassuring because I decided to call down in case villain had been raising with a weaker pocket pair than mine, and so I check/called to showdown.

In fact villain turned over K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], which I had not considered as a possible holding for him. That led me to think that one should not necessarily confine unknown players hands to the same range that you would play or raise with yourself, and to consequently wonder whether I should have folded at any stage after he raised the flop.

However reading the responses gives me confidence that calling down was most likely the best play.

[McGahee]

[ QUOTE ]
In fact villain turned over K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], which I had not considered as a possible holding for him. That led me to think that one should not necessarily confine unknown players hands to the same range that you would play or raise with yourself, and to consequently wonder whether I should have folded at any stage after he raised the flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: an unknowns 3-betting standards - IMO it's tough to say whether on average - they are more or less liberal than the average poster here. Granted there are some donks out there who will do it with anything, but there's also a lot of passive/mediocre/semi-decent playing non-2+2ers who don't even think to 3-bet TT. Personally, I think the latter category outnumbers the former.

In any case your reasoning is completely backwards. If you're of the opinion that the average player has a wider range of 3-betting hands than yourself, then you should be MORE willing to call him down here, not less. If he does this with KT, he can just as easily have AQ, AJ, AT, QJ, 77, etc.

[gopnik]

I dont think the villain would raise the flop with AK here, so, I think you are ahead. I'd probably just go with WA/WB play and call him down.

[Fantam]

[ QUOTE ]

In any case your reasoning is completely backwards. If you're of the opinion that the average player has a wider range of 3-betting hands than yourself, then you should be MORE willing to call him down here, not less. If he does this with KT, he can just as easily have AQ, AJ, AT, QJ, 77, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that calling down seemed to be the correct play, but do you think that villain would have also raised the flop with AQ,AJ,AT or QJ if he had raised PF with those hands? I could envisage him raising the flop with another pocket pair.

[2+2 Junkie]

grunching....
I think that we should either fold here, or got to showdown. I don't think calling and folding UI is a very good line. Like you said, he could be playing a smaller pp aggressively to try and make you think he has the K.
I would probably fold, but I could see a call down as well.

[eviljeff]

I think if he had a K he'd slowplay it. I'm thinking AA, QQ-TT is more likely. maybe even something stupid like AJ. put da money in da middle.