Flop 2 pair, but board pairs.... against a moneybag.

Schizo · #1 02-20-2005, 07:30 PM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, MP3 folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, hero...

Kaz The Original · #2 02-20-2005, 07:32 PM

3 bet the flop. Is he a calling station money bag, or a crazy random bluffs money bag?

Schizo · #3 02-20-2005, 07:35 PM

He was a money bag (TAG), but he was tricky....

Schizo · #4 02-20-2005, 07:42 PM

The 3 bet on the flop seems correct in retrospect, I was going for a turn 3-bet. If villian raised the flop, based on his previous play, I figured he would raise the turn and I planned on 3 betting the turn. The board pairing made me not happy because my 5 was no longer good. I was sure I was beat at that point.

I guess this is a no brainer and I still should of 3-bet the flop.

Elizabeth · #5 02-20-2005, 09:10 PM

What kinds of hands would he limp with preflop after one limper? It's unlikely that he has an unsuited or a big suited ace, because those are raising hands (for value or to isolate). Axs, however, would be a decent limp.

I'm trying to put TAG on some other hand, and I'm having difficulty. 98s would be possible. A9s and ATs, and potentially AJs too? Don't know. Big hands like 55 or 88 are unlikely because you've seen 2 fives and 2 eights already. Any hand like 99 or TT, or suited face cards, are unlikely to raise like this twice.

It seems most likely, to me, that you are looking at a suited eight or a chopped pot. You are getting 4.5:1 to see it through to the river (I think, but I am lazy). If you are behind then you've got 4 outs too.

Plus you say he's tricky. I don't like it, but I call it down. After thinking about it I just don't believe him.

me454555 · #6 02-21-2005, 02:23 AM

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If villian raised the flop, based on his previous play, I figured he would raise the turn and I planned on 3 betting the turn

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If you had top 2 pair and there was no flushdraw on the board, this play could be correct. The fact that there are many cards that can counterfit your hand make a flop 3 bet a better play.

DemonDeac · #7 02-21-2005, 02:47 AM

3-bet flop
get ur money in when ur the odds-on favorite to win hand
u WONT be counterfeited more often that you are

young nut · #8 02-21-2005, 09:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, MP3 folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, hero...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I would fold here. Your kicker is pretty much non existant now and you have a read on villian as being a TAG player, I'm not sure what hand you would put him on here that you feel like you are ahead of.

chesspain · #9 02-21-2005, 10:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would fold here. Your kicker is pretty much non existant now and you have a read on villian as being a TAG player, I'm not sure what hand you would put him on here that you feel like you are ahead of.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with having opponent described as a PF "moneybag" is that it doesn't really address how well he plays. If he is a bonafide TAG, there are not a lot of better aces he could holding with which he would have failed to raise PF. If he has AJ-AK, he almost certainly would have raised PF. And if he has A6s/A7s, his turn raise is pretty gutsy. So that leaves hands like A8s/A9s/ATs--but against all of the above hands except A8s, you have oddles of hidden outs to a split if a Bdwy card falls.

Consequently, I would call the turn, and my likelihood of calling the river would increase geometrically with the rank of the river card.

chief444 · #10 02-21-2005, 11:34 AM

Yea, definitely 3-bet the flop. And you need to call the turn. AT-AK would normally be raised pf.