QJs > Nuts > Action

[Hattifnatt]

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I would've just called the turn. [...]

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Isnt there a big problem with calling because so many cards will be actionkillers on the river IYO? + The little possibility that a scare card come and he comes in pushing and Hero get a tough decision?

[-Skeme-]

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I would've just called the turn. Villain's line from a thinking player looks like he's probing to see if you were raising a draw on the flop.

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That's possible, but he should still have a hand right? If he's probing with a made hand, I want to raise and get his money into the pot before something kills my action. What happens when I call and sell the whole draw thing, but a spade comes? That's not really good for anybody.

Is he has 76, that's great as there is very little chance he'll get away from it. Especially when I play it super fast like I did. Not to mention, if he does have a made hand, my jam can also sell the whole semi-bluff thing, too.

If he has a set, I doubt he's getting away from that either. If he's probing with a draw, good, I still want to raise here, right? I'd rather go with the sure thing though, which is getting my money in now, as opposed to hoping river blanks so I can jam and sell a bluff.. all the while hoping his probing hand is that strong.


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What do you think of Villain's line here? It seems very hard to get away from 67......

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Yeah, can't fault him for calling. I can easily have a set there and I'd play it the same way.

[Ghazban]

From villain's perspective, he can get away from a ton of hands when you raise him both on the flop and turn. If you call the turn, you get more money in on the river against many of those hands that either block bet or check/call to snap off a bluff on the end. Whether or not cards kill your action is irrelevant if raising kills your action 100% of the time. Clearly, if villain is strong (as he was in this case or would be if he had a set), the money goes in pretty easily anyway. You can't stack him if he's not that strong no matter what you do but you can get a little more value out of your hand when he doesn't have a monster by calling the turn. The only time you lose is when villain would've played a big pot on the turn (with a set for example) but won't on a scary river.

[-Skeme-]

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You can't stack him if he's not that strong no matter what you do but you can get a little more value out of your hand when he doesn't have a monster by calling the turn.

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How? What are we putting him on that bets flop, turn, and river, that isn't going to be calling my raise?


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The only time you lose is when villain would've played a big pot on the turn (with a set for example) but won't on a scary river.

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Or when I call and a spade hits and he bets again. Or when I call and a spade hits and he checks, thus killing my action. Or when I call and a Jack hits and kills my action.

[emil3000]

I think your line is fine, I really don't think you get more value out of just calling the turn, and you risk losing the pot.

[-Skeme-]

Yeah, those are basically my sentiments.

[Ghazban]

The way you played the hand is not bad, I was just giving my side and what I would have done. In games I play, I make money off of hands like 98 and T8 by calling the turn and betting the river. They almost have to check/call the river to snap off a bluff from a busted draw. If I raise the turn, I lose those hands from all but the worst opponents because of the massive strength I've shown raising both the flop and turn.

What it boils down to for me is that villain clearly has a made hand and I clearly have a better made hand. If I raise both the flop and turn, I lose hands that are drawing almost dead to me (T9, T8, 98 for example) and only keep in the sets that have a decent chance to fill and the made straights. Those hands usually will put in a good amount of money on the river anyway so I don't need to put it in on the turn.

Just to make up an example to illustrate this precisely, lets say villain has 98. If I raise flop and turn, he probably folds to the turn raise. If I call the turn and the river is scary, he check/folds (no difference between raising the turn and calling in this case). If the river is a brick, he check/calls in case I'm bluffing a missed draw (which my hand now looks a lot like). If he chooses to put out a blocking bet and fold to a raise on a brick, I still get more money than if I'd raised the turn (the size of his blocking bet).