My poker progression

[AlexSem]

This day marks my first poker game online. First game for money.

It's been exactly a year and I actually hit a nice round number to celebrate just a few minutes ago.


Believe it or not - 30/60 is pretty easy. But I started off at .5/1.

Most trouble I ever had was 5/10. It's an extremely loose and crazy game, or so it seemed to be coming from 3/6. I lost 2k before ever starting to win there. COnsidering my whole bankroll was 3k at the time, I had to re-build to cover my losses 4 times (I'd go back to 3/6 after losing 500$).


So to post something constructive, since most posts in this section have been rather dull. To win at 30/60 and win good, most people lack:

1. Blind defense

2. Proper semi-bluffing

3. Variety.


Blind defense is simple: don't just fold them like an idiot. When someone raises and a couple of people call, call any 2 suited cards in BB and consider the same in SB. I know a flush draw doesn't come all that often but you got kick-ass implied odds if it does.

Then when flush draws do come, people simply don't play them properly. It's going to hit by the river 1/2, meaning you should be HAPPY when the flop is capped. Meaning check-raise it, or bet if you think they're going to raise. Build the pot.


2. Proper semi-bluffing

This one is actually tough since it takes at least 30k hands to really get the hang of how 30/60 rolls and when you should be attemtping this sort of thing. But the most obvious cases where I see are where people don't check-raise with flush draws on turn hoping for a fold. Don't raise or 3-bet turns when getting check-raised. Don't bet rivers sometimes.


3. Variety

I have the most hands on this one guy: his stats are 22 VPIP and 11 PFR.

How the [censored] is he planning to win? I don't know. You cannot win with 11PFR at 30/60 as far as I see it. Or maybe you can, he probably beats the game, or I am actrually quite confident he does, but that's terrible stats as i see it.

Maybe just my style but when your raise means it's A8-AA or 77-AA. You are very obvious. You have people fold against you a lot more than you wish they would.

So start raising marginal [censored] for variety. Start check-raising with nothing. Start doing sneaky little plays and then shove them in people's faces.

I remember someone told me my stats are 30/22. You'd think I lose all my money, but I just pick my spots and know when to lay it down if I am beat.


[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] So um, that's how I feel about the game right now. It gets tough with people who know how to adapt to aggressive styles of play, but I see very few people learning and too many doing ABC poker and trying to win 1BB/100. 15/11 can only win at 3/6 and not even. 20/15 can win anywhere. 25/18 with good postflop is going to kick some serious ass.

Comments?

[CardSharpCook]

I love it when you are at my table.

[arod15]

[ QUOTE ]
This day marks my first poker game online. First game for money.

It's been exactly a year and I actually hit a nice round number to celebrate just a few minutes ago.


Believe it or not - 30/60 is pretty easy. But I started off at .5/1.

Most trouble I ever had was 5/10. It's an extremely loose and crazy game, or so it seemed to be coming from 3/6. I lost 2k before ever starting to win there. COnsidering my whole bankroll was 3k at the time, I had to re-build to cover my losses 4 times (I'd go back to 3/6 after losing 500$).


So to post something constructive, since most posts in this section have been rather dull. To win at 30/60 and win good, most people lack:

1. Blind defense

2. Proper semi-bluffing

3. Variety.


Blind defense is simple: don't just fold them like an idiot. When someone raises and a couple of people call, call any 2 suited cards in BB and consider the same in SB. I know a flush draw doesn't come all that often but you got kick-ass implied odds if it does.

Then when flush draws do come, people simply don't play them properly. It's going to hit by the river 1/2, meaning you should be HAPPY when the flop is capped. Meaning check-raise it, or bet if you think they're going to raise. Build the pot.


2. Proper semi-bluffing

This one is actually tough since it takes at least 30k hands to really get the hang of how 30/60 rolls and when you should be attemtping this sort of thing. But the most obvious cases where I see are where people don't check-raise with flush draws on turn hoping for a fold. Don't raise or 3-bet turns when getting check-raised. Don't bet rivers sometimes.


3. Variety

I have the most hands on this one guy: his stats are 22 VPIP and 11 PFR.

How the [censored] is he planning to win? I don't know. You cannot win with 11PFR at 30/60 as far as I see it. Or maybe you can, he probably beats the game, or I am actrually quite confident he does, but that's terrible stats as i see it.

Maybe just my style but when your raise means it's A8-AA or 77-AA. You are very obvious. You have people fold against you a lot more than you wish they would.

So start raising marginal [censored] for variety. Start check-raising with nothing. Start doing sneaky little plays and then shove them in people's faces.

I remember someone told me my stats are 30/22. You'd think I lose all my money, but I just pick my spots and know when to lay it down if I am beat.


[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] So um, that's how I feel about the game right now. It gets tough with people who know how to adapt to aggressive styles of play, but I see very few people learning and too many doing ABC poker and trying to win 1BB/100. 15/11 can only win at 3/6 and not even. 20/15 can win anywhere. 25/18 with good postflop is going to kick some serious ass.


Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]


you still sound like a .50/1 player

[ggbman]

[ QUOTE ]
Then when flush draws do come, people simply don't play them properly. It's going to hit by the river 1/2, meaning you should be HAPPY when the flop is capped.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think people under the misconception that you hit your flush 50% of the time when you flop a 4 flush are whats making 30-60 great.

[AlexSem]

Wow you guys got me, I am in reality a .5/1 player...


It's funny I get smack on these forums that are filled with people who are stuck at 5/10 at most while thinking they're internet pros... I can think of a dozen people or so people that I would think can actually respond to this thread with "you're full of [censored]" and then go ahead and back it up with their stats, not just a loud mouth.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


qqgman or whatever:

You are full of it. When I raise with a flush draw, I can potentially get a free card as a result, if I feel it is necessary. Now that's 2 small bets I save by raising and spending those very same 2 small bets.

Or maybe I re-raise and drive out people who would've outdrawn me otherwise. Maybe I hit my top pair on turn and win with just that because I kicked out any middle pairs that would've gotten two pair otherwise.

Ever consider how much raising accomplishes, other than "oh but I don't have the odds to raise".

Say you got flush draw, bottom pair and another w/e card.

You got your 9 cards for the flush, 2 for the set and another 3 for 2 pair.

That's 14 outs. You should thin the field down as much as possible. Not to mention the times when you are NOT on a flush draw but hit a set, you play it just as aggressively and people put you on that flush draw so you get paid off way more than you would've otherwise.

In the long run, you spend an extra small bet or two capping that flush draw or 3-betting it or whatever, but you'll gain many big bets in the long run.

Ok yes [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow you guys got me, I am in reality a .5/1 player...


It's funny I get smack on these forums that are filled with people who are stuck at 5/10 at most while thinking they're internet pros... I can think of a dozen people or so people that I would think can actually respond to this thread with "you're full of [censored]" and then go ahead and back it up with their stats, not just a loud mouth.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

there's more than a dozen imo. and i can't imagine a 5/10 "pro" w/ no other income.

keep up the 25/18 for 150k hands. then report back.

Barron

[ggbman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow you guys got me, I am in reality a .5/1 player...


It's funny I get smack on these forums that are filled with people who are stuck at 5/10 at most while thinking they're internet pros... I can think of a dozen people or so people that I would think can actually respond to this thread with "you're full of [censored]" and then go ahead and back it up with their stats, not just a loud mouth.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

there's more than a dozen imo. and i can't imagine a 5/10 "pro" w/ no other income.

keep up the 25/18 for 150k hands. then report back.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

I made $100/hour at 5-10 over a reasonable sample, you could definitly do it for a living.

[ggbman]

Yes Alex, i know how to play flush draws. I simply don't agree that it will get there half to time as you said in your OP.

[AlexSem]

Barron I am not sure what annoys me more: "you suck" or "oh you need 324235235345k hands to really know".

You're saying 60k hands isn't big enough sample. In fact, you are prolly going to say "need at least 100k".

I've heard that for a while now. What's interesting is that I've played maybe 150k hands total and my winning has been consistent on every limit every month. Now how does someone winning at every limit he plays not knowing he's a winning player?

Or you're suggesting my winrate is going to break in half because 25/18 isn't the optimal strategy? You know, even if it does, that's still quite a number, but I doubt that's happening.

[ggbman]

I don't know what annoys me more, the fact that you present crap like this as fact, or that when an excellent player calls you on, you refute it vehemently. I have personally seen you peel flops with the 2nd nut low and no draw within the last 2 months, and then bitch about running bad. Regardless of what you believe, your play is not of the caliber of the top posters in this forum. (Not that i am one of them) So stop arguing and keep learning.