Help me get my AF +2. Middle pair hand with outs

RickA · #1 02-26-2005, 08:47 PM

hello

MP1 is TAA, BB's 1st hand.

My AF is hovering right around 2 and I would like to increase this. Is this an area I am playing passive? My biggest concern is the flop call. My thinking is that I probably don't have a strong enough hand to play this aggressively right now but I have some outs. Is this weak
Who plays this more aggressivley on the flop?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, BB raises, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

River: (7.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

ArturiusX · #2 02-26-2005, 08:48 PM

You can start by raising this flop. What does calling do for you here?

topspin · #3 02-26-2005, 08:55 PM

I'd start by folding preflop. You've got a marginal hand that plays well multi-way, but you're shorthanded against a TAG who presumably is less likely to make a lot of postflop errors.

Frankly I'd fold the flop too. It's hard to tell if you're ahead or behind -- you're behind anyone with an A or a better Q, and if you're ahead there are a bazillion ways they could draw out on you. For a 4.5SB pot it's just not worth contesting; save the aggression for the big pots.

(Incidentally, folding more instead of calling down increases your AF too.)

RickA · #4 02-26-2005, 08:55 PM

Like I said I didn't think I had enough hand but had some outs. Maybe my thinking is wrong on 2nd pair with medium kicker?

ArturiusX · #5 02-26-2005, 08:57 PM

Yeah, Q9 with one limper is pretty bad.

Folding is good, raising is... well it could be ok with a read, and calling is very very bad.

RickA · #6 02-26-2005, 09:00 PM

I agree about folding more and looked at this area first. However after 25000 hands I am only going to showdown 28% of the time and only winning 48% of those. This got me to thinking there must be some marginal areas that I could push harder.

Redd · #7 02-26-2005, 09:02 PM

Flop seems like a raise-or-fold, but with second pair, mediocre kicker against a TAG I'd prolly fold. Pot is small, you don't have pot odds if you're behind, and I'm doubtful that a TAG would bet third pair with an ace on the board.

Redd · #8 02-26-2005, 09:05 PM

Wow, I've really gotta type my repsonses faster. I think about the hand and come up with a reasonable suggestion, only to find that one of the guru's has made a post that's twice as long in half the time. Now I just look like a poseur who parrots the more experienced players [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

memphis57 · #9 02-26-2005, 10:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
only winning 48% of (showdown)

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't most people want this slightly over 50%? Could you be calling down too many hopeless hands? Those calls would lower your AF too.

On the hand in question, I probably would have played it like you did, except I would have raised preflop. Against a TAG I'd rather have the aggression lead. On the flop you have a pair and a backdoor flush draw - you have to fear the A and a flush is only 4% likely so you can't raise on the cards. Turn comes and now a 2nd-nut flush is 20% likely and you still have the Q-pair, so I'm betting that, but still lots of holes so no sense reraising. Then the river bings trip Qs with a good chance to win, well worth raising.