PokerStars 25+2 Turbos versus PokerStars $55+5 Turbos

[bookish]

Hi,

Having been playing the 25+2 Turbos with some success over recent
months (and other games at similar levels on other sites) I have recently
tried moving up to the next highest game, which on Stars is the $55+5
and I wanted to run a couple of points past people.

My results are pretty attrocious so far, and although my sample size is
small its clear that the level of play from my opponents is
much higher than I am used to. Early in the game, the play is tight
from virtually everyone. Additionally the moves I make (especially
continuation bets) seem always to be met by a raise - putting me to
the test. There are many other areas where the game seems quite different, but I won't bore you with them.

I wonder whether I am slightly 'scared' at the new level and so my
bets aren't large enough, and people can sense my weakness.


2 Questions really:

Have other people found quite a marked difference in player skill between buy-in levels?

How long did it take you to adjust? If you ever did. Its quite possible
of course that I have just found my level and I should temper my ambitions.


At the moment I am essentially taking money from the $27 tables (slowly) and
leaving it on the $55 tables (much quicker).



Thanks ....

[Roman]

the 55s are a joke. The play is tight, and your continuation bets are always being met with raises? What about your real hands then? Meh I think ur runnin bad, and competant player should be able to kill the 55s.

[bookish]

Maybe I am just running bad.

My good hands are few and far between. I've put that down partly due to the few number of players entering pots, and those pots often being stolen by a small raise.

Consequently I am throwing away my small and medium pocket pairs and suited connectors.

The 55s are definitely tougher than I am used to though. Thanks for the thoughts.

I'm a big fan of playing pairs for set value early in an SNG, even after a small raise.

People get attached to their big pairs and will call off their whole stack if you hit.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
the 55s are a joke. The play is tight, and your continuation bets are always being met with raises? What about your real hands then? Meh I think ur runnin bad, and competant player should be able to kill the 55s.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just not true.

There are a LOT of really good players at the $60s. There are also a LOT of really truly awful donkeys. I would say that every table I play has on average 3 (if not 4) good players and 5-6 donkeys. Which means if you treat the good players like donkeys you will get owned.

At the $27s you can tread everyone like a donkey by default and be fine. At the $60s you can't, period.

[bennies]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the 55s are a joke. The play is tight, and your continuation bets are always being met with raises? What about your real hands then? Meh I think ur runnin bad, and competant player should be able to kill the 55s.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just not true.

There are a LOT of really good players at the $60s. There are also a LOT of really truly awful donkeys. I would say that every table I play has on average 3 (if not 4) good players and 5-6 donkeys. Which means if you treat the good players like donkeys you will get owned.

At the $27s you can tread everyone like a donkey by default and be fine. At the $60s you can't, period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes you can. Or maybe not complete donkeys, but definately like predictable players who overvalue their own hand. I rarely get reads so I treat most of them the same and do fine.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
the 55s are a joke. The play is tight, and your continuation bets are always being met with raises? What about your real hands then? Meh I think ur runnin bad, and competant player should be able to kill the 55s.

[/ QUOTE ]

"i'm better than you and i will belittle you for not measuring up to my greatness."

this post sucks.

[The once and future king]

[ QUOTE ]
the 55s are a joke. The play is tight, and your continuation bets are always being met with raises? What about your real hands then? Meh I think ur runnin bad, and competant player should be able to kill the 55s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I nominate this as the most informative and helpfull reply of 2005.

Yes, the $55 + 5s are much harder than the 25+2s, especially on the bubble. I have made money at the 55+5s, but have done much better at the 25+2s. I think I probably have some leaks that are keeping me from what I should be doing at the 55+5s though, so I am working on analyzing that.

As someone who's been straddling the two levels at Stars for a bit (until my BR got hit by a tornado) I can say yes, there definitely is a noticeable difference in play. Continuation bets don't always work, people will come over the top with middle pair, or sometimes nothing. IE - if they put you on AK and you make a standard continuation bet on a ragged flop they may come over the top, which puts you to a painful decision. I think a lot more of the $60s guys (and up definitely) get the big secret that most flops miss most hands (shhhhh), and you can't always give your opponent credit for a high PP. A good chunk of the $27 guys don't seem to have caught on.

As another example, on the $27s there may 3-4 players at the beginning who will call preflop raises with AT or even lower, then call all the way down if an A hits on the flop. Great to make money off of when you have AK, not so much fun when you have a high PP. I'd say you're lucky if there are 1-2 guys like that on the $60s, and they're usually dead pretty quick. But if you can make it down to the bubble you still get plenty of players who don't know about pushbotting or play weaktight heads-up.

There are other examples I can't think of right now, you'll just have to learn to execute and recognize on your own. To sum up, yes IMO they are tougher. So you have to find better edges than what worked on the $27s. #1 - You can move to Party, which I hear is softer, and try to find a rakeback deal. #2 - You can try to outplay them pre-bubble. This is what I was trying to do, since I'm still learning and 2-tabling max, and it's fun. But I don't think this lends itself very well to 8-tabling. Or #3 you can work on finding all your leaks and tightening up your game fundmanentally. This is what I am working on now. From what I hear super-solid ABC poker should still take the day on the $60s, though maybe not for the same ROI as the $27s.

Also as someone who's dabbled on the $119s a bit, I can say it's the same deal all over again. Much more aggressive, very few gimme-pots, and you have to learn to execute and spot new tricks. But you can do more traps and possibly get them to make mistakes trying to outplay/test the newb. So that's fun.

When moving up, I think it's pretty normal to lose for a while until you acclimate to the new level. How long I can't say, I'd love to hear some of the $215 guys weigh in on this.

So I can't say I know any of this for sure, but that's my impression FWIW.

-Matt