what is the best buy-in to gain MTT experience

[nightlyraver]

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Even at 3000 chips I may not be in dangerous M terrirtory however if there are a couple of large stacks at my table they will be bullying me and ensuring that any pot I get into will be a large proportion of my stack.

I've ended up getting into positions where other large stacks can mean I can only play premium hands back at them and if they don't come then I'm in trouble.



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This is not how you should be thinking. First, apply your SnG skills here. Haven't you ever played an SnG where one guy has t4000, you have t1200, but the blinds are only at 20/40? Same idea...

Second, were you one of those kids that constantly got bullied on the playground growing up? Stand up to a bully. Not all the time of course, but if you show that you are shrewed, skilled and tougher to beat, you will not at all be the target.

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Now if we base all of our play on the M and Q we are no longer playing our game, we are not playing the table, the players, the situations we are just opening up and stepping on the gas. This is not smart poker.

This is incorrect to say ALL. you still must play the situation, the player, the table and eak out what small edges you can. Is this not what i said by playing your game? I am merely suggesting you don't start bleeding chips off by playing every half rate hand that comes along.

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Good points

I also really like the MTTs and have been funding my "lessons learned" from my ring game profits. A few of my lessons:

1. Be cautious during the first orbit. Double or die is a popular strategy by players who don't want to commit 3 hours without a good start.

2. Keep the tournament lobby open during your play. I usually keep it on the BOTTOM of the field, not the top. I find this far more encouraging when cold decked for an orbit or so. It also gives you real time M & Q data for your calculations.

3. Develop your READS and rely on them. I'm amazed how many times someone at my first table ends up against me later ITM.

4.. Keep reading HOH. It takes a few passes to get the nuances - esp. the play tight at a loose table, and LAG at a tight table (within reason). If you can't steal at some point, you won't make it. Your image is your best steal weapon.

5. Have FUN! Its only $10 for several hours of play. About the same as a movie, but with upside!

6. When you do FT and win, DON'T WAKE THE KIDS! That really sucked! but now I can enter and lose 60-70 more MTTs and still be +$$.

Good Luck!

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This is not how you should be thinking. First, apply your SnG skills here. Haven't you ever played an SnG where one guy has t4000, you have t1200, but the blinds are only at 20/40? Same idea...

Second, were you one of those kids that constantly got bullied on the playground growing up? Stand up to a bully. Not all the time of course, but if you show that you are shrewed, skilled and tougher to beat, you will not at all be the target.

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Firstly. It is similar to an STT where one player has taken a large lead and we have all been the short stack and gone on to win. I'm not saying it's impossible but I am saying that it's a good place to be either.Also remember that in an MTT there will be more than one person who's stack is way in excess of yours by that point in time.

Secondly, playground comaprisons are not a good example but as you started it. If I think I can take the bully there and then (ie I have a good holding) I'll come out punching and see what happens (all-in). I'f I'm totally out gunned and I'll find out who he is and and introduce the back of his head to a lump of 2x4 when he least expects it. (that option has no poker equivalent).

I've obviouslsy not expressed myself properly in the initial posts. That happens when I'm typing from work. I agree with all the previous posters who have said that you can only play your holding and the people at your table. Do we agree for example that there is a point in an STT where you have to start opening up your game to gather chips so as to be in contention at the end? Always coming third in an STT might sound good but if you always get there with 1BB left then you are almost never going to win. I beleive this to be true and I was trying to understand if there is a similar point in an MTT. I'm almost certain that there is but I can't, as yet, understand where and when that might be. It seemed logical that as there are players on other tables I would need to factor in my position and chip count in relation to those other tables in order to find that point. I may well be my tables chip leader but if my stack is only ten percent of the average stack size I do not think I'm in good shape to win the whole thing. I was playing a 400 person $25 buy-in MTT last night and, in general, the people who got off to a good start and built stacks early were the same people who were in contention as the money places started to get within reach.

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I also really like the MTTs and have been funding my "lessons learned" from my ring game profits. A few of my lessons:

1. Be cautious during the first orbit. Double or die is a popular strategy by players who don't want to commit 3 hours without a good start.

2. Keep the tournament lobby open during your play. I usually keep it on the BOTTOM of the field, not the top. I find this far more encouraging when cold decked for an orbit or so. It also gives you real time M & Q data for your calculations.

3. Develop your READS and rely on them. I'm amazed how many times someone at my first table ends up against me later ITM.

4.. Keep reading HOH. It takes a few passes to get the nuances - esp. the play tight at a loose table, and LAG at a tight table (within reason). If you can't steal at some point, you won't make it. Your image is your best steal weapon.

5. Have FUN! Its only $10 for several hours of play. About the same as a movie, but with upside!

6. When you do FT and win, DON'T WAKE THE KIDS! That really sucked! but now I can enter and lose 60-70 more MTTs and still be +$$.

Good Luck!

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Thanks for the pointers. I know HOH is my best bet and I'm re-reading it now. It improved my STT play no end so now I'm going back with more of an MTT slant. There is so much in there I'll probably be re-reading for the 100th time in 10 years and still be only just getting things. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I only ever play QQ, KK or AA on the first orbit, a hangover from my micro buy-in STT days where on average 3 of the field had gone out before they posted a blind!

I tried a few $5 MTT's on my week off last week and even then I was surprised to see some of the same old user-names in these things. Remebering players and taking notes is something I need to improve on a lot.

I'm lucky that I can ignore the buy-in once I've clicked on the 'register' button. I've got past letting money influence my decision on a particular hand. I let it influence my decision to buy-in or not and that's it.

If I ever win one of these things I'm gonna wake the whole street [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

just one comment on this. was that you that hit me with the 2x4. damn that hurt.

seriously, you can compare some aspects of SNG's to MTT's but not many. One of the biggest differences is in a SNG it is easier to "open up" your game because the table is getting smaller, while 95% of the time in an MTT you are playing with a full table. Just a vital part of any comparisons between the two.

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just one comment on this. was that you that hit me with the 2x4. damn that hurt.

seriously, you can compare some aspects of SNG's to MTT's but not many. One of the biggest differences is in a SNG it is easier to "open up" your game because the table is getting smaller, while 95% of the time in an MTT you are playing with a full table. Just a vital part of any comparisons between the two.

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Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou. That might be totally obvious but it's the fact that I had missed up to this point. That is why my understanding breaks down. In an STT you loose one tenth (or more as there are less palyers) of the field in one go and the departure has an immediate impact on you as a player. In an MTT you loose 1/400th of the field (lets say) and it may have no impact whatsoever on you as a player.

Time for a re-think.....

What a great point that is, losing 1/400th compared to 1/10th. I see people all the time though that are CLs early one but never make the money much less the final table. I think we have all seen that. One of my personal bests was just squeaking into the money only to go on and win the whole darn thing. I think there are a ton of great points made here and your best bet is to play lots of MTT and read HOH. I like the $10 buy in since it is cheap and good experience but have played the $50 and $100 ones as well. Even the MTT SNGs with 27 players is a good way to go.

[FrogMouth]

In response to your original question, you should try some of the sites other than PP & PS. Prima & Pacific have much smaller fields for the respective buy-ins. You should try your had at those. Much less of a time commitment and still have a relitivly easy fields. In a field of 500 your chances go up exponentially over those 2000+ donkfests.