$2+0 R&A Speed Tourney....risk it for the 'fat cash'?

Winwood · #1 11-17-2005, 07:44 PM

Hi,

Before you dismiss this low buy-in crap, I just want to say, there were 239403298 rebuys in this tourney and the top 5 place all paid out over $1000 (which may also be crap, but not to me!)

Anyway the blinds are 50,000 and 100,000 and there's about 90 players left - we made the money at about 120, and the pay-out if I go out now is around $25. It goes up about $15 for every 10 until you get to the final table when it goes UP.

I have 98k after posting the small blind. BB is all in with 3k which is pretty much irrelevant. All fold, before the guy in the cutoff with around 450k min raises (a mere 200k). The previous hand this guy had raised with 74s into the BB who had about 30k behind is 100k BB. Anyway BB called and gets a fairly nasty bad beat, but at least I see chipleader's raising just to steal and because he knows he can't go bust on 1 hand.

So anyway, Its folded to me and I have KJo - my thinking goes like this.....If I fold, I still have 98k, I can survive at least 9 more hands and probably get further into the money (maybe up to 70 or ever 80 dollars). I prolly won't get much further because theres 4 or 5 other players at the table who have me outchipped (unless I hit a monster of course). But if I call I can double up to over 300k and could actually make the final table.

So, with KJo, how do I work out if its worth the call?

BTW I may have left some key details out so please let me know, I'll fill in the gaps

JP Rocks · #2 11-17-2005, 08:15 PM

I doubt whether this is the hand that really matters. Post a few of the hands that saw you get here with less than 1BB behind.

For the record, your filmaff is worth its weight in gold right now.

Winwood · #3 11-17-2005, 08:48 PM

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I doubt whether this is the hand that really matters. Post a few of the hands that saw you get here with less than 1BB behind.

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Because this is a speed tournament probably around 75% of the field has <2BB. I actually think I did well to be in this position. A few hands before I stole ~80k in blinds a la villian in my OP.

There's no way to keep sensibly ahead of the blinds, except (in my very humble opinion) taking chances like the one I described.

Any insight into this unusual situation?

[ QUOTE ]
For the record, your filmaff is worth its weight in gold right now.

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I've been reading this board for years, but not this forum, so I guess....wha?

A_Junglen · #4 11-17-2005, 09:00 PM

Bill Fillmaff

Live it, Love it, Learn it, Breath it.

betgo · #5 11-17-2005, 09:12 PM

Yeh, I gamble. Play for the final table.

People always make remarks about how you shouldn't get down to 1 BB or wahtever. There are some people who get blinded down rather than make a move, but there are plenty of legitimate ways you can wind up in the dead zone even if it is not in a speed tournament.

However, I usually prefer to gamble and steal so as to keep a few BB in these speed tournaments. On Party, there is a lot of stalling and people playing to fold and move up.

Winwood · #6 11-17-2005, 09:18 PM

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On Party, there is a lot of stalling and people playing to fold and move up.

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You got that right. Its ironic...'speed' tournaments are about the slowest games there are

JP Rocks · #7 11-17-2005, 11:17 PM

I'm not sure from your original post, but has the BB posted the full 100k BB with 3k behind, or have they only posted 3K as the BB?

Considering that 75% of people are at or below 2BB, you have to think that everyone could be playing any two. Assuming the BB posted 100k, you are getting 3:1 (and have the chance of getting back 100K if the BB wins but you beat the CO), and KJo v any two has about 40% equity. Even if the BB only posted 3k, you are getting 2:1, and considering the BB is dead, your equity v any 2 is about 60%. I cant see how you could fold here. (Note- I'm at 'work' and pulling these numbers out of my head, so apologies if they are off).

Also, what was the button's stack? If the button had the CO outchipped, its an even easier call.

King jack not suited is Bill Fillmaff's signature hand, the one he used to win the 1998 Worldwide Poker Champs.

Winwood · #8 11-18-2005, 08:22 AM

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I'm not sure from your original post, but has the BB posted the full 100k BB with 3k behind, or have they only posted 3K as the BB?

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BB had nothing behind and only had 3k to post. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

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...if the BB only posted 3k, you are getting 2:1, and considering the BB is dead, your equity v any 2 is about 60%. I cant see how you could fold here. (Note- I'm at 'work' and pulling these numbers out of my head, so apologies if they are off).

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So what you're saying is, I should fold KJo because it isn't good enough here getting 2:1? I don't know nothing about nothing, but against a random hand surely KJo is pretty good?

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Also, what was the button's stack? If the button had the CO outchipped, its an even easier call.

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I don't remember his exact stack but CO was chipleader for sure and so wasn't outchipped. Question tho - if there WERE someone yet to act who had CO covered, wouldn't that make his raise stronger because he risked being reraised all in?

[ QUOTE ]
King jack not suited is Bill Fillmaff's signature hand, the one he used to win the 1998 Worldwide Poker Champs.

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It all becomes clear thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

betgo · #9 11-18-2005, 09:16 AM

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So what you're saying is, I should fold KJo because it isn't good enough here getting 2:1? I don't know nothing about nothing, but against a random hand surely KJo is pretty good?

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Yeh, I definately gamble with 2-1 odds with KJo to triple up to 3xBB.

A lot of people play those speeds only playing when put allin by the blinds and trying to move up as much as possible that way. Some people have advocated that on this forum, but I disagree, particularly with the big payouts for the final table.

Winwood · #10 11-18-2005, 10:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So what you're saying is, I should fold KJo because it isn't good enough here getting 2:1? I don't know nothing about nothing, but against a random hand surely KJo is pretty good?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeh, I definately gamble with 2-1 odds with KJo to triple up to 3xBB.

A lot of people play those speeds only playing when put allin by the blinds and trying to move up as much as possible that way. Some people have advocated that on this forum, but I disagree, particularly with the big payouts for the final table.

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Thanks for the advice [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]