Please help, need advice (long)

First of all, I would like to say "hello" to everybody. This (I think) will be my first post on these boards (I - apparently - unsuccessfully attempted to post a similar message last night).

On to the problem:

I am contemplating the idea of becoming a "professional" poker player. I don't really know what the exact definition of a "professional" poker player is, but I think of it as someone whose only source of income is playing poker on a regular basis. And this is what I hope to eventually be doing.

I started playing Texas Hold 'Em approximately 6 months ago. My friend, who has been playing for years and knows quite a few people who play semi-professionally, introduced me to the game. I was never really into "gambling" before I started playing, and I really don't think I would be interested in any other form of "gambling" besides Hold 'Em. I'm just not a "gambler." The only reason I play poker is because I am good at it, and I find myself making over ten times what I make at work when I am on top of my game.

The only problem is that I will occasionally have a bad luck streak, where the cards just don't work. I am an aggressive player, and sometimes I just don't get the cards that I expect to come. Some nights, it seems as if that's all that happens, and I lose my entire $300 stack in just a few hours (I play 6/12 cash games at Commerce Casino, CA).

Does anybody have any suggestions/advice for me? Should I go "pro?" Should I just play part-time? What kind of bankroll should I have for playing 6/12 games on a regular basis? Is it better/easier to play online versus brick-and-mortar? Am I just a newbie fish that should get the heck out of your world?

I would appreciate some constructive criticism/helpful advice. I would like to thank anybody who helps in advance. And please, no jokers. I am serious about this.


Edit: Don't be afraid to ask clarification questions. If there's anything you'd like to know about this subject, just ask. I will answer any intelligent questions.

[pudley4]

1 - You're not as good as you think you are. (No one is, but newer players are especially susceptible to the "I've been running well and am a poker god" mentality)

2 - Before you even think about playing for a living you need several things: A) Several months of proven success. Not just "I win more than I lose" or "I had a good few weeks". Documentation of exactly how much you're winning/losing is essential. B) Several months of expenses which are separate from your bankroll. You will absolutely go through losing streaks and months where you don't win enough to cover the bills (and some months where you don't win, period). You cannot afford to dip into your bankroll to cover these expenses, as that will open you up to a bigger disaster - busting out. C)You need a bankroll which is separate from your spending money. 300 BB is the normal suggestion, but 500 BB is much better. This should allow you a bigger cushion against the inevitable downswing, and can prevent you from having to drop down in limits when you start losing.

3 - Playing online for a living is significantly easier than trying to play in a cardroom. You can play any hours you'd like; you don't have to drive to the room and then wait for a seat; you can play multiple tables at the same time; you can get rakebacks and bonuses which add to your earnings; you can use programs like Pokertracker and Playerview/PokerAce to help track your play and your opponent's play.

4 - Go to the archives, search for all posts by davidross. He started his poker career over 2 years ago and gave weekly updates for the first year about his journey. It's a great read and will give you a lot of insight into the difficulties of becoming a professional.

[ QUOTE ]
1 - You're not as good as you think you are. (No one is, but newer players are especially susceptible to the "I've been running well and am a poker god" mentality)

2 - Before you even think about playing for a living you need several things: A) Several months of proven success. Not just "I win more than I lose" or "I had a good few weeks". Documentation of exactly how much you're winning/losing is essential. B) Several months of expenses which are separate from your bankroll. You will absolutely go through losing streaks and months where you don't win enough to cover the bills (and some months where you don't win, period). You cannot afford to dip into your bankroll to cover these expenses, as that will open you up to a bigger disaster - busting out. C)You need a bankroll which is separate from your spending money. 300 BB is the normal suggestion, but 500 BB is much better. This should allow you a bigger cushion against the inevitable downswing, and can prevent you from having to drop down in limits when you start losing.

3 - Playing online for a living is significantly easier than trying to play in a cardroom. You can play any hours you'd like; you don't have to drive to the room and then wait for a seat; you can play multiple tables at the same time; you can get rakebacks and bonuses which add to your earnings; you can use programs like Pokertracker and Playerview/PokerAce to help track your play and your opponent's play.

4 - Go to the archives, search for all posts by davidross. He started his poker career over 2 years ago and gave weekly updates for the first year about his journey. It's a great read and will give you a lot of insight into the difficulties of becoming a professional.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would just like to say "thank you very much" to this individual who, so far, has made the most helpful comment to me on this thread. This is excellent advice, excellent criticism, and I do not feel like he attacked me in any way.

Sir, you are a true wrodsmith, and a good person. Thanks for your help.

[Seth Money]

Great,

I admire your courage and this post but here is what I think everytime I see a post about "going pro". I think that you should get in there and play some games, I mean games for a while, learn the game, and if you are winning consistently eventually everything will fall into place. I mean look at the great pros of sports, Tiger Woods for instance the man won everything he could before he reached the elite level and even before that he was just an amatuer, he nothing left to do but go pro, so pretty much he fell into it. I say this I think a lot of people think that going pro in the poker world means that you have to declare your amatuership null, not so. I think your results will dictacte your ability to determine if you can do this full time. There's no agents and no signing bonuses. If you want to be the best, go out there and play your ass off and stop worrying about the definition of the game but don't lose site of other things if your endevours fail here (not saying they will)

Now lets get to these other questions your talking about. Bankroll, if your playing seriously I wouldn't be involved in a full time lifestyle with less then 600 BB but I like security. Online v BM, it all depends on what you are more comfortable with. I spent 3 years in a BM playing limit poker and I loved every minute of it, then the poker room manager at the place I played told me i could me a lot moer online and bankrolled me (funny huh) So I think you should get an equal balance of both worlds.

Yes, you are a newbie, but we all were and to be honest posting here I am not far from your status. This is a great place to learn, be open minded about your game and you will get better for being here. If you have any other questions, you can PM me.

Seth

[wheelz]

THE TRUTH about poker professionals

Thanks again for all the advice, guys. I just have a few questions, and a few responses.

First off, what the heck does "BB" stand for? Big Blind? I'm not sure what people are talking about when they are saying stuff like "I lost 200 BB" or "I'm winning 1.92 BB/100." Sorry if I'm asking a question you all see here fifty times a day, but I'm new to online poker chat jargon. Thanks in advance for your patience, understanding, and help.

Second...I read that "My failure as a poker pro" thread, and it sounds a tiny bit like what happened to me at first. I was really stupid and took everything I had to the casino and lost it all a couple times. I never moved up to compensate, never played online, and only entered one tournament before I realized I should not be playing in tournaments. And it only cost me $130.

I did do stupid crap like scam people for money to get a bankroll. I actually went on ebay and sold "merchandise cards" that didn't exist for around $200 each. I definitely overdrafted my bank account (which actually got charged off). I am in debt WAY over my eyeballs.

However, the reason I started doing all this is because a guy that I had just met (who turned out to be a coke addict) scammed me out of around $2,000 within a month. He was a friend of mine for about 6 months before he did this, and was apparently just setting me up the whole time.

So, he put me in a position where I NEEDED money, real bad. Unfortunately, I became unemployed at about the same time he scammed me, so I had no source of reliable income. To top it all off, I live in Los Angeles, where worth-while jobs can be very difficult to come by.

So, I scammed people (business owners who could afford it - not justifying it - but, they could). I got about $700 from the scam, took it all to the casino, and had a two-week long run. I was able to pay off about $1,000 worth of the damage that my "friend" had caused. I still owe about $2,000, due to interest, bounced checks, and whatever. I am actually facing criminal charges for a few $20 - $30 checks I wrote just after he took the money (which is ridiculous to me, because I had every intention of honoring those tiny checks, but was unable to because my "friend" never payed me back).

I am now taking a break from cash games, but keeping sharp at the play-money games on some online sites. I have a job as an administrative assistant at a great company through a temp agency. I am making $13.42/hour, which is great for me.

My plan, after long hours of conversations/contemplations and reading a ton of posts here at 2+2 is to save a little money every month until I have about $3,000 saved up for poker. Then, I will start playing poker online, at the level I feel comfortable with (5/10, 6/12), and just play whenever I have free time.

If my bankroll disappears with that plan, I will know that poker is not for me. I will quit and chalk it up as a neat experience. Like I said before, I am not really a "gambler." The crazy things I mentioned doing were done in an extreme situation. I was desparate at that time. I would have done almost anything to make money, and poker just happened to be the idea of the moment.

Now that my life is more stable, I truly feel that I can approach this thing with a level head and be smart about it. I have decided that I do NOT want to go pro, but I would like to see if I can make some extra money on the side to help me finance some fun in my life. I am okay with the idea that I might not be able to do this, but I am eager to see if it works out.

I am sure that some of the things I have done will shock some of you, and some of you might even think that I should stop playing poker all together. I appreciate your input, but would just like to reaffirm the fact that I do NOT have an addictive personality. I have even heard people tell me that I quit too soon, when my chips are up, that I should stay and "ride the wave." I know when to stop, and very rarely find myself on "tilt." I am perfectly happy with simply doubling up and leaving (most of the time). If I notice my chip stack dwindling after a few hours of winning, I will stop and go home.

I would appreciate any and all input concerning this long post. I certainly have appreciated the input so far. Thanks again.

[Seth Money]

Great,

Its unfortunate about the things that you did, I guess we all have skeletons in our closets and we just have to make better decisions as life goes on and learn from our wrong doings.

BB = Big bet or Big Blind

The typical standard is to have a bankroll of 300 BB or more for whatever limit your playing so if its 5/10 300 BB would be 3k. Coming from a brick and mortar background I would suggest coming in online and playing 2/4 or 3/6 to start, its a whole new world online and you will have to adjust. You will be amazed by both the swings and amount of hands you will seen in just one hour. Jumping into 5/10 prolly isn't the best idea. I tried to do the same thing and it was freaky different and I have grinded my way in live games over 3 years from 3/6 to 5/10 to 10/20 to 20/40, and well I think if you start at a lower level for a set amount of hands like 25k or so and see your results you will prove to yourself that you are committed to the game and are willing to work at it. If you just go to 5/10 like u said and lose (this may not be for me is what you said) I think thats the lazy's way out. You have to put in the time to get better and I will 99.99999% gurantee that none of these guys on this forum had no poker experience and jumped into the higher level games and succeeded. Just my .02 cents

Seth

[ QUOTE ]
Great,

Its unfortunate about the things that you did, I guess we all have skeletons in our closets and we just have to make better decisions as life goes on and learn from our wrong doings.

BB = Big bet or Big Blind

The typical standard is to have a bankroll of 300 BB or more for whatever limit your playing so if its 5/10 300 BB would be 3k. Coming from a brick and mortar background I would suggest coming in online and playing 2/4 or 3/6 to start, its a whole new world online and you will have to adjust. You will be amazed by both the swings and amount of hands you will seen in just one hour. Jumping into 5/10 prolly isn't the best idea. I tried to do the same thing and it was freaky different and I have grinded my way in live games over 3 years from 3/6 to 5/10 to 10/20 to 20/40, and well I think if you start at a lower level for a set amount of hands like 25k or so and see your results you will prove to yourself that you are committed to the game and are willing to work at it. If you just go to 5/10 like u said and lose (this may not be for me is what you said) I think thats the lazy's way out. You have to put in the time to get better and I will 99.99999% gurantee that none of these guys on this forum had no poker experience and jumped into the higher level games and succeeded. Just my .02 cents

Seth

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you, Seth, for explaining the "BB" thing to me.

As for the rest...well, I have played many 9/18 games at commerce, and actually have never lost money there. I only lose at 6/12 occassionally, and I tried 1/2, 2/4, and 4/8, with minimal success. I feel I am most comfortable at 9/18, but normally only have the funds for 6/12.

What I do is bring $300 to a 6/12 table, double up, cash out, secure my winnings in my vehicle, and walk back to the casino (reminding myself that I will not, for any reason, retrieve the money I just left in the car to play more poker). Then, I sit back down with $300 at another 6/12 table, and when I come up to $450, I move up to 9/18. If I get to this point, I am generally having a good night. So I normally pull a "hit and run" on the 9/18 table (VERY aggressive play for a short amount of time), and typically cash out with a 300% profit for the night.

Of course, that is on a good day.

So, do you still think I should stick to the lower stakes? I am pretty sure that my best live game is 9/18, as I have NEVER lost money at a 9/18 table. The lower stakes just end up really ticking me off, with all the river chasers catching miracle cards through oblivious play. It takes a lot to tick me off, but the players at really low stakes really seem to push my buttons (inadvertantly, I'm sure).

Example: I was down on my luck one night. This chick to my left (only playing because her bf was playing and had no idea how to play) at a 1/2 table had K 3 off-suit. I had pocket Aces. I think she was on the button, or close to it. Anyway, some idiot had raised ahead of me, and I (obviously) re-raised. She cold-called three bets pre-flop with K 3 off-suit.

The flop comes blank blank 3, giving her a pair of 3's. The idiot who raised pre-flop bets, I raise, and she CALLS! The same thing happens on the turn and river, only the river was a King, giving her two pair, to beat my pocket Aces. The only reason I didn't get up and start strangling her is because she was actually kinda hot, and I had been hitting on her (her bf was playing 20/40 on the other side of the casino). It probably wouldn't have helped me to get her number if I had attacked her. I didn't get her number anyway, so in retrospect, I should have choked the witch.

Anywho, what do you think? Still going with the 3/6 games?

[David04]

After reading your posts, I think that you are not ready to turn pro.

[ QUOTE ]
After reading your posts, I think that you are not ready to turn pro.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. I hope you read the part where I said that I do not want to go pro. I am now just thinking about the possibility of making some extra money on the side playing poker.