Too Unlucky For Poker?

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<font color="blue"> So I figured my best move is to wait until I have a premium hand before getting involved. </font>

Well, see what happens when you post a first example? It quickly becomes obvious that you're not just unlucky, but you don't play all that well. Against the type of players you describe, you don't NEED to wait for a premium hand in order to bust them (as long as you play well after the flop). In fact, waiting for a premium hand is poor strategy here.

Also, did you even realize you still had outs before you walked away from your hand?

No offense dude, but you're a bad player. Yeah, you might be unlucky too, but having no understanding of the game is your biggest problem. Work on that and get back to us.

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I must disagree. Absolutely every book, article, and forum I have read, advocate no bluffing or risking a large amount of chips with weak hands when playing against a bunch of calling stations. Now, if all of these books, articles, and forums are wrong, why does everyone reccommend reading them?

I might actually be a bad player as you say. But I know that a large majority of the time I get my chips in with the best hand and a majority of the time I end up losing. I also know that in that situation I'm not going to make a lot of plays with mediocre (at best) hands with 7 or 8 players seeing every flop. If that's wrong, I'd like to see the documentaion on it.

I post this to deter you from quitting based upon "luck". Here is a sample of a tournament I was in last night where I had an unlucky streak and managed to make money. It was a $5 30-person Sit and Go on UltimateBet. Here are a few huge hands I lost (yes, lost) with:

1. I have K-K. Many limpers before me with one somewhat small raiser. I push all in. Everyone folds except the raiser, who calls with 10-10. They catch a 10 on the turn and win. Fortunately I was the chip leader from playing well before that hand (at least in my opinion) and didn't lose the match.

2. I have A-A. Many limpers before me, I raise several hundred chips, one person calls. Flop comes something like 3-6-A. I push all in, the other person calls with some garbage hand like 4-7 offsuit (inside straight draw). They catch a 5, get the straight, and I lose the hand. Again, I regained chip leader status before this hand, so I survived.

3. I have K-K (again). I push all-in after some limpers, someone else calls with something like 8-9, catches a straight again, and I lose the hand. I was still the chip leader before this hand, so I didn't lose the match still.

4. Down to the final two at the table. I have 8-8, bet about 3000 pre-flop, get a call. Flop comes something like 7-8-10. I push all in with my trips, opponent calls with Q-K. She catches running cards (9, J) for a straight. I get 2nd place in the match since I wasn't the chip leader on this hand.

Despite my losing hands with KK, AA, KK, and trip 8's, I managed to score 2nd place in this 30-person Sit and Go. It won me $35 for a $5 entry. Not bad considering my luck! Don't give up, practice and READ.

[Lestat]

<font color="blue">I must disagree. Absolutely every book, article, and forum I have read, advocate no bluffing or risking a large amount of chips with weak hands when playing against a bunch of calling stations. </font>

I didn't say anything about bluffing or risking large amounts of chips. But you should be playing every [Edit: reasonable] hand where you can see a flop cheaply. Sooner or later you'll flop big and double or even triple through against idiots who can't get off bottom pairs and/or top pair/bad kicker. Paying blinds and waiting only for premium hands against the players you describe is poor strategy. You can take that to the bank.



<font color="blue"> But I know that a large majority of the time I get my chips in with the best hand and a majority of the time I end up losing. </font>

Best hand going in does not always mean having the best of it after the flop. In fact, KK is an overall dog to take down the pot against 8 players (although it will surely be a money favorite). There are other factors which are probably leading you to wrongly conclude that you have the best of it when in fact you probably do not. Statistics can be fickle for the short term and while you can run bad for a period of time, if you have the best of it often enough you WILL win eventually! There's just no getting around that.

Look at your game instead of blaming your luck.

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I decided to write down every time I go all-in with the best hand. I mostly play SnG's on Full Tilt, so that's where I got all of my hands from. Just to make sure this is clear, I only wrote down the hands in which I was in the lead at the time I went all-in. Out of 200 hands in which I put all of my chips in the pot, and I was ahead at that time, I won only 40 hands.

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Your test is missing some key information. You may wish to note the size of the pot in each of these cases, the amount of your all-in, the percentage favourite you are against the opponent's hand, etc.

Also note that NL Holdem isn't a game of all-ins. There is a lot of value hidden in situations where going all-in isn't necessarily the best way to play a hand.

i wish you'd post more, les.

seriously.

[southgapoker]

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So is it time for me to give it up? Or is there a way to break this cycle? I guess I could just reverse my play and try to make sure I'm always all-in with the worst hand. Any advice?

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You took the advice right out of my mouth. I know FOR A FACT Daniel Negreanu and Phil Ivey start going all in with trey-deuce offsuit when they are on a losing streak. You should try it too. It WILL work.

[TheHip41]

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I know a lot of you will say I'm just being silly or stupid.... But I have concluded that I am just too unlucky for poker. My friends used to tell me that I'm just on a bad streak and it'll pass, bla bla bla. But I've known for quite some time that I'm the one poker player that the odds and percentages simply do not apply to. And to finally prove this to myself and everyone else I performed a little test.

I decided to write down every time I go all-in with the best hand. I mostly play SnG's on Full Tilt, so that's where I got all of my hands from. Just to make sure this is clear, I only wrote down the hands in which I was in the lead at the time I went all-in. Out of 200 hands in which I put all of my chips in the pot, and I was ahead at that time, I won only 40 hands.

Some of the people I play with on a regular basis have openly admitted to me that they will almost always call a big raise from me no matter what cards they have. The reason for this is because they know the stronger my hand is, the more money I'm likely to lose with it.

So is it time for me to give it up? Or is there a way to break this cycle? I guess I could just reverse my play and try to make sure I'm always all-in with the worst hand. Any advice?

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You probably just suck.

[benkahuna]

I've felt similarly to you. I don't think a negative attitude helps. Use your outcomes to continue to work on your game. Get a larger sample size. Expect better results.

I've had terrible luck on full tilt in the past. It has a lot to do with how close hands actually are to each other in value (it's hard to more than a 3:1 favorite up to the flop) and how often crappy players will have trouble releasing a hand.

Try playing a higher limit. This advice will probably be treated as heresy, but it worked well for me moving from 3-6 limit to 6-12 limit.

[68Mustang]

When did icon worshiping become an out?

[papilindo]

as long as she's a hot virgin then this too would be sound strategy... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]