How do you know when you don't have the nerve for the game?

[AlphaMeridian]

Please excuse me if this comes out a little disjointed, but it's the only way I can think to explain it, and I really need advice and or opinion on the subject.

In short, I'm not sure I have the nerve for the game. I don't know if this is just a dropoff in confidence due to a downturn, or a real self evaluation. My NL tourney game is nearly nonexistant. I've been trying to work on it for ages, and I'm just not getting anywhere. I typically play with a couple of friends every other week for 2 or so. I started out well a year or so ago, when I was first getting into the game, and I was okay. I never crushed the game, but I was okay. However, these guys are simply great at reads. That's something that I've never had a talent for. Sure, I can try to pick up on their betting patterns, but they never really play the same way, it's not really getting me anywhere, and I'm not really good at picking up on the patterns at limit play either. It's gotten to the point where I'm really not sure I can play the game. So much of what I've gathered of tourney play is applying reads to situations (when to raise to isolate a weak limper, when to lay it down, when to try to steal vs. tight or weak blinds, when to push, and when not to push)

If it wasn't for the fact that I've got a fairly decent winrate on the party .5/1 over what is approaching 10k hands, I'm not really sure I'd play. But even there, I make _so many_ mistakes, I'm beginning to think it's a fluke. It's like the fish instictively raise or C/R me, and I crumble into a heaping pile of goo who has MUTB syndrome.

So, I ask you. This seems to be something that I don't get. I've tried for a couple of months to put together some semblance of a NL tourney game, and patch the holes in my limit game by what I can only gather, is inherent weak/tightness. I've read SSH and that mitigates a number of problems with my limit game, but not all. But, I can't for the life of me get how they know when I've got a hand in tournaments, and when i'm bluffing. When I'm drawing, vs. when I have a made hand.

Has anyone else gotten through this?

-Alpha

[rerazor]

Get drunk when you play.

[Jim T]

You might want to look at Caro's Book of Tells, not just for trying to read other people but for recognizing tells that you could unknowingly be giving off. It sounds to me like you could be giving off obvious "strong is weak, weak is strong" vibes.

You might also try the "unibomber" look.

[Bluffoon]

When you have to ask.

[imported_stealthcow]

get very self observant.

there are times when i toss chips into the middle like i dont want them and as soon as i do and i see the response from my opponents, i try and think about what they think that means. ditto for when i take a long long time to make a play at the pot.

you need to pay attention to the things you're doing. how long you take, how you put your cards in teh middle, if you're making eye contact with the other players etc, etc. ideally you always do the same thing.



as for .5/1 online read lee jones guide to low limit holdem or something. if you're not aggresive just learn how. post hands and focus on it. i have a friend who was fairly weak tight, but we watched him play and explained to him concepts, and he's no longer weak tight (in limit).


stealthcow-

[Gbob]

Seems to me you took the first step by honestly looking at your game. Too many people just drive on hopelesly or quit. I was in the same boat about a year ago. I mostly play a home cash game with some real sharks. I was being fleeced weekly. If I made a few bucks I was happy.

First, tackle the easy one. You have some sort of tell. It could be shaky hands, body language, chip selection, etc. You need to retrain yourself. Pick a position to sit in and make sure you sit the same way every time you're in a hand. Next step is to pick a bet and use that bet over and over again. For example, when I worked on my tells I decided that during the learning process I would bet two five dolar chips every time I was betting (this is a mid size bet in our home game....at least enough to get people to think a second before calling it). Don't try to get fancy at this stage. You're not only retraining yourself, but you're training the table that they can't rely upon your old tells to play against you. Some players will pick up on this, but there's nothing they can do about it. You might have pocket aces or a suited connector. You bet the same way every time and they can't tell. This forces them to play their cards and give you information about their hands. Watch their betting pattern!

The next aspect to tackle that first week is your play. You want to rebuild your game from the ground up. Obviously you start with the basics. The first week just keep it simple. Play good cards, lay down bad cards. Don't chase unless the pot odds make it impossible not to. If the cards don't hit, don't try to buy the pot. Make the table respect your bets. Show the table that you can't be pushed off a pot, and that if you're in that means you have the cards. In the short run this will lower your EV but in the long run it'll pay off.

At this point you should be playing break even poker. That's a start. After that it's a learning process. Each week go to the table with a different goal. One week practice position play. The next week practice your bluffs. Pick up a new trick each week and eventually you'll have enough moves to get the game where you want it.

[Masquerade]

It's only money. Relax and play your game. Maybe drop down the stakes a little. Call less. Raise more. Check-raise as a bluff occasionally. Raise UTG with 97s sometimes. Mix it up.

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]
It's only money. Relax and play your game. Maybe drop down the stakes a little. Call less. Raise more. Check-raise as a bluff occasionally. Raise UTG with 97s sometimes. Mix it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this advice at all. "It's only money" will cause you to play worse and let you get pushed around especially in No Limit. I dunno about you, but I am not one to be careless with my money. The better approach is:

It's only chips. Get the most and you win.

[AlphaMeridian]

I'd like to thank everyone for their replies. I'm definately going to try to address my tell issues.

As for the game, My problem by in far is I'm systemically being blinded out of the game. I don't get a lot of premium holdings, and it's hard for me to loosen up as players get knocked out and the blinds go up. Typically, I play, the blinds increase, I realize I need to make a move before my stack doesn't have any intimidation factor (say, T500 when everyone else has like 5000 stacks, I try to make my move before then). Around this point, I do a bit better, but I can never make it out of the hole. It doesn't help that the games typically start maybe 7 handed (we don't typically have 10 people at our game). I've been futzing over reading Harringon on Hold Em, but I'm not really sure how much that would help. Opinions on this?

-Alpha