party 3/6

quinn · #1 07-05-2005, 10:36 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.33 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.66 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, UTG folds.

River: (7.66 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 10.66 BB

Here's my line of thinking: UTG had about a 65% VPIP over 30 hands or so. It's not totally dependable but it made it seem like raising A8s was a good move.

Then on the flop, the bet seems automatic, because I want to keep control of the pot and have a chance at taking it down right here. I also hit a gutshot, so I have more outs than just my aces.

On the turn, I chose to bet again, because I figured if someone had a Jack, they'd have bet out or raised the flop. I'm trying to represent a jack or overpair by betting the turn.

On the river, I decided there was enough money in the pot that I should try one last steal, just in case my opponent was on a broken draw, with, say, QT. I think it's obvious that I won't have the best hand enough of the time to call the river raise, so that seemed like an easy fold.

joker122 · #2 07-05-2005, 10:38 PM

post this in the HUSH forum.

brassnuts · #3 07-05-2005, 10:39 PM

You'll probably get better repsonses here in HUSH.

The usually give up on the river and check/fold.

sweetjazz · #4 07-05-2005, 10:50 PM

Yeah folding to the river raise is easy. As an advocate of aggressive play, I would say that your line is sometimes right depending on your reads, but that it is generally just spewing chips.

Don't try to represent hands in these games. Unless you actually have the hand you are representing. Because players either don't believe you, or they believe you but insist on calling down anyway. When two people call this flop, you're probably behind here. There's a few factors which are working against you, and why you should check here, with the intention of folding if the button bets or getting a free card to draw to your gutshot if he doesn't bet.

(1) You don't have position. Even though your hand has showdown value, because you can beat drawing hands like KT and 86, you won't be able to see a free showdown on the river if the button stays in the hand.

(2) Your showdown value and your outs aren't very good. Your A outs may not be clean and your T outs may only win you half the pot. Also your weak kicker means you could end up at a showdown against someone who badly played AT but still wins the pot. These little things do matter when you're trying to push a potential edge that is very small to begin with.

As far as preflop goes, I think an isolation raise like this is appropriate in the right spots. The looser the CO and the button are, the less value it has. Since your hand isn't terribly strong (though better than UTG's average hand), you really want to have a good chance of buying the button with your raise. In looser games, I will often limp here. It makes it easier to get away from flops like these (where your bets postflop are really only made because the pot got so big from the PF raise and so you're hoping your fold equity is high enough that, along with your chances of improvement or being best and holding up to showdown, your bets are profitable). Also, you increase your chances of being bet into on the flop, which is nice because you often want to protect your hand when you flop a pair of 8s, and you can decide whether to raise or fold other hands like a pair of As or a flush draw depending on what you think you will maximize your EV in the particular situation that arises.

BTW, I think this is a good hand post and I like how you explained your thinking on the various streets.