Push, fold, call?

Skuzzy · #1 01-13-2005, 09:08 PM

I have lots I could say about this hand (I have 200,000 in PT I could post but this is the first one I have been so undecided on as to want any input), but interested in opinions on how to play it on the end so I'll say nothing.

He was one of those that PT shows as a LAG but for some reason I had hardly noticed him until we got heads up in this hand and we'd played nearly 200 hands.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $50 .5\1 blinds (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP3 (Villain) ($172.02)
CO ($50)
Button ($45.75)
Hero ($130.9)
BB ($31.5)
UTG ($46.8)
UTG+1 ($18.55)
UTG+2 ($58.35)
MP1 ($30.7)
MP2 ($19.8)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1. Hero posts a blind of $0.5.
3 folds, MP1 calls $1, 1 fold, MP3 (Villain) calls $1, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero (poster) raises to $3.5, 1 fold, MP1 folds, MP3 (Villain) calls $3, CO folds.

Flop: ($11) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $7, Villain calls $7.

Turn: ($25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $15, Villain raises to $30, Hero calls $15.

River: ($85) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain bets $45, Hero ????

warlockjd · #2 01-13-2005, 09:20 PM

I realize you're not asking for preflop advice, but I think a raise to at least $5 preflop is mandatory.

Now, that being said, I think I agonize for a minute on the river before I muck.

Then I make it a point to keep a very close eye on villain's plays and raises.

Skuzzy · #3 01-13-2005, 09:44 PM

I've been loathe to post a hand here 'til now because my game is far from polished. I take criticism badly and despite having no real idea why I should raise $5 preflop I'll search the forum and try to figure it out. My guess is - raise the standard raise (3BB) + any called bets (2 in this case).

I might not have asked, but somehow having someone say so when I posted the BAHH makes it more valid than when its said about someone elses.

All advice is welcome as I strive for the mythical 10BB (PT BB's) an hour. Thanks

tbach24 · #4 01-13-2005, 09:55 PM

Fold, too much beats you. Also, preflop I think if you are going to make raises standard (which I suggest), I think you do 4 bb's + 1 more for each limper. Therefore I suggest 6, but since it's AA and you want to get action, perhaps 5 is better. 5 or 6 is good pre-flop. Also, on a draw heavy board when all you have is an overpair, I would bet out a little more than pot.

soah · #5 01-13-2005, 10:15 PM

Raise more preflop. You will be out of position for the rest of the hand and there are multiple opponents in the pot already. And your stack is pretty deep. I would raise to about $6-7 here.

I would strongly consider checking the turn for a number of reasons.

If your opponent called you with a pair on the flop, they currently have very few outs against you. They may call you with something like 88 because they think you might have AK and missed the flop. If you bet again on the turn they will fold, but they may bet if you check to them. Even if they check behind, a free card is very unlikely to improve them to the best hand.

If your opponent called on on the flop with a flush draw or a set, you are currently drawing very live. A spade is good (except possibly if it pairs the board) and there's a chance a three will win you the pot as well. If this is the case, you want to get to the river as cheaply as possible. Facing a large raise here would really suck.

So basically, by betting out you will get raised when you're behind, and your opponent will either fold or call if you're ahead (he may occasionally raise with AQ or whatever, but I'm speaking in general terms). So all that betting out does is get more money into the pot when you're behind than when you're ahead. By check-calling it's more likely that the same amount of money will go into the pot regardless of who currently has the best hand.

After checking the turn, I would bet around 60% pot on the river as a blocking bet. If you get raised at that point you're almost surely beaten and can fold.

Skuzzy · #6 01-13-2005, 10:50 PM

I've always been reluctant to add on callers to a standard pre-flop raise, given the replies to this I'll bow to the collected wisdom and try making that a standard with big pairs.

Checking and calling the turn makes sense, I like the reasoning. I think betting out when I bet the flop is pretty much an auto-pilot thing. My play is pretty much ABC and often just AB I guess.

Skuzzy · #7 01-13-2005, 10:57 PM

Almost forgot, I folded on the end. I was 50/50 on a call for a moment but this is normal and I usually do what I think is right in the end. For some reason though I was fuming. I had to sit out and normally I get back in after a minute or two but I felt, all night and into today, like I was pushed off on a bluff. Then again it was playing my gut that used to get me broke, I just wish it would give up the struggle and let me fold and be content.

soah · #8 01-13-2005, 11:46 PM

You want to narrow the field before the flop. The more people that have limped in, the larger a raise you will need to accomplish this (the reasons for this should be fairly obvious I think). Also, taking down the pot preflop without a fight is worth more to you when multiple people have already limped in. Winning a small pot is always preferable to losing a pot, so make sure you've charged people sufficiently to outdraw you.

TheWorstPlayer · #9 01-14-2005, 01:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
given the replies to this I'll bow to the collected wisdom and try making that a standard with big pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

It should be a standard. I.e. every time you raise, not just with big pairs.

creedofhubris · #10 01-14-2005, 02:32 AM

Yep, raise the same amount with AK (and TT, AJs, whatever else you raise with) that you do with AA.