Is SSH becoming obsolete?

johnnybeef · #1 01-12-2005, 04:39 PM

Now i know i will get a lot of heat from this posting but i don't care. SSH is an excellent book that i have learned many things from. The theory behind it as you all know is that small stakes games have many loose players who make many mistakes both preflop and on the flop. Over the last few months (at least from my perception) it is becoming more and more difficult to find games (at least on line) where there are routinely more than 4 people seeing a flop. This means that players today have now become better preflop. After the flop however, players are still making many mistakes, but the pots are not as big which changes the dynamics of the whole postflop strategy employed by Mr. Miller's masterpiece. What do you guys think?

amulet · #2 01-12-2005, 04:45 PM

i play at mid and upper and upper limits, and i have found very loose games, especially in the evenings and weekends.

BUD · #3 01-12-2005, 05:09 PM

thanx
bud

johnnybeef · #4 01-12-2005, 05:23 PM

and where at also

MaxPower · #5 01-12-2005, 05:42 PM

If you are in a game where routinely 4 players are seeing the flop, that is loose enough. There are going to be some big pots.

The books says to adjust your play based on the size of the pot. How can that be obsolete?

johnnybeef · #6 01-12-2005, 05:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you are in a game where routinely 4 players are seeing the flop, that is loose enough. There are going to be some big pots.

The books says to adjust your play based on the size of the pot. How can that be obsolete?

[/ QUOTE ]

perhaps i should have clarified...a lot of the games i have been seeing as of late consist of either one or two limpers and the blinds (which makes 4 small bets) or 1 raise with one caller (making 4-6 small bets depending if callers are in the blind or not). As early as late october i can remember going into party and UB 2/4 and seeing 3 to 4 people calling raises making 3-4 way pots with 10-12 small bets preflop. In my opinion, games are tightening up currently as a result of people learning how to play the game. Now is it impossible to encounter an extremely loose game currently? My answer would be no. I'm just saying that it is not as common as it was a few months ago. My question is that in order to stay ahead of the possible trend of games tightening up, do i need to adjust my strategy???

Johnny

BUD · #7 01-12-2005, 06:31 PM

I have to agree w/ your original post. I can find games described in detail @ a live cardroom but have a tough time finding many callers @ party. this is specifically .5-1 to 3-6 games.
bud

yeltzen · #8 01-12-2005, 06:44 PM

Even when SSH first came out, I could not find $1/2 - $4/8 games with more than 3 or 4 players seeing the flop. So, when I read it, I had no idea how they were making this assumption. Especially online, when people get their ass handed to them the first couple of times, they're smart enough to get one of the 20958720938572098 low-limit Hold'em books and learn. I mean, I know these "other books" can't possibly be as masterful as SSH, but they're good enough to tighten players up and make games very unlike stereotypical low-limit games.

johnnybeef · #9 01-12-2005, 06:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Even when SSH first came out, I could not find $1/2 - $4/8 games with more than 3 or 4 players seeing the flop. So, when I read it, I had no idea how they were making this assumption. Especially online, when people get their ass handed to them the first couple of times, they're smart enough to get one of the 20958720938572098 low-limit Hold'em books and learn. I mean, I know these "other books" can't possibly be as masterful as SSH, but they're good enough to tighten players up and make games very unlike stereotypical low-limit games.

[/ QUOTE ]

How they learned to tighten up is irrelevant to this discussion. Like I stated before, SSH is not necessarily geared toward beating low limit games. Rather, its main focus is games that are loose and full of errors by your opponents. It just happens to be that low limit games are the genre that fit this caveat. Once again, my question is: Are the strategies employed by SSH becoming obsolete due to the fact that many of the players that were recently introduced to poker are learning how to play more fundamentally sound preflop holdem? Furthermore, is there another game that would be more profitable at lower levels to learn as many people are learning to play holdem and the edge that a decent holdem player had is no longer as big???

yeltzen · #10 01-12-2005, 07:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Are the strategies employed by SSH becoming obsolete due to the fact that many of the players that were recently introduced to poker are learning how to play more fundamentally sound preflop holdem?

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, yes. The only time I remember tight games being mentioned in SSH is the starting hand chart. After that, they pretty much assume 4-6 people are seeing the flop. There's a lot of stuff that you just can't do when only 2 players are seeing the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
Furthermore, is there another game that would be more profitable at lower levels to learn as many people are learning to play holdem and the edge that a decent holdem player had is no longer as big???

[/ QUOTE ]

O-M-A-H-A. Straight high or high-low.
If you ever see someone fold at a 2/4 Omaha table, please let me know.
Also, most people playing in low-limit Omaha games learned Hold'em first, and they are much less motivated to learn the game of Omaha, since it's more complicated.