|
|
|
|
#2
12-19-2005, 11:14 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: 10/20 37s
[ QUOTE ]
Check/call this flop, you are risking paying through the nose on such a flop by betting out. [/ QUOTE ] It's a raised pot, Hero is the BB with 5 players to act. If he checks this board Joe, won't it almost surely come back to him bet/raised? And since he's not folding, doesn't calling 2 cold usually say "I have clubs"? If I'm not folding when it's likely to be raised, I'd much rather bet out and call 1 than 2 cold. 
|
|
#3
12-19-2005, 11:19 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: 10/20 37s
There's no reason for deception in this hand. Either you make the flush and drag the pot or you don't. You'll be getting the right odds. Trying to conceal that you have a flush draw on the off chance of maybe (very dubious) making another BB or two on the end is just getting greedy imo.
- Jim
|
|
#4
12-19-2005, 03:01 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: 10/20 37s
[ QUOTE ]
There's no reason for deception in this hand. Either you make the flush and drag the pot or you don't. You'll be getting the right odds. Trying to conceal that you have a flush draw on the off chance of maybe (very dubious) making another BB or two on the end is just getting greedy imo. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure how you got that out of what I said. Deception for another BB on the end? I mentioned giving your hand away but it had little to do with my point. And getting greedy? Come on. My point is that if you're going to coldcall a raise back to you, and with 5 people behind you it's likely to be bet/raised, you're better off betting out.
|
|
#5
12-19-2005, 03:14 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: 10/20 37s
Ok, I guess I insinuated too much. One last bit though.
Why is this? "My point is that if you're going to coldcall a raise back to you, and with 5 people behind you it's likely to be bet/raised, you're better off betting out." What's the effective difference? - Jim
|
|
#6
12-19-2005, 03:30 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: 10/20 37s
[ QUOTE ]
Check/call this flop, you are risking paying through the nose on such a flop by betting out. [/ QUOTE ] Doesn't that depend on how many people come along? I want to see one or 2 bets go in on this round with 5 people seeing hte turn. I'm not offended by that. I'm not going to get crazy with it, after all it's only a 7 high flush, if we can't depend on the continuation bet, why not bet it?
|
|
#7
12-19-2005, 04:17 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: 10/20 37s
BigE, with a flush draw, you want to cap the flop so long as you get 2 players to come along with you. True, discount this on a paired board, and it is better if you also have an overcard, but 4-flushes flops will flush out 35% of the time.
|
|
#8
12-19-2005, 04:56 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: 10/20 37s
[ QUOTE ]
BigE, with a flush draw, you want to cap the flop so long as you get 2 players to come along with you. True, discount this on a paired board, and it is better if you also have an overcard, but 4-flushes flops will flush out 35% of the time. [/ QUOTE ] Honestly, i think this is horrible advice. There are re-draws to higher flushes a decent percent of the time, a higher flush draw a small percent of the time, and a set with a huge redraw a small percent of the time. You can't blindly say that u have 35% equity here so you should cap. You don't. I am definitely in the c/c this flop camp. And i'm also three betting the turn. You don't want an overcall here. If u have the nut flush draw with an overcard, i would bet out.
|
|
#9
12-19-2005, 04:58 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: 10/20 37s
I don't agree with this. You are 2-1 to improve by the river, but in limit poker you have to pay to get there virtually all of the time.
To be for pure value, you need the number of players involved in the street to exceed the odds of getting there on the next street. And there are also reverse implied odds you inflict on yourself in other situations (flush draw and overs if you hit your over on the end and have to make a thin call in a 10BB pot). If you're constantly jamming draws on flops with only two opponents for pure value, I think you're misguided. - Jim
|
|
#10
12-19-2005, 05:53 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: 10/20 37s
Treat each street as a prop bet. On the money that gets in on the flop, Jason_T takes 30-37% (maybe he gets running 3s). Thus, juice the pot when there are 3 others certainly and often when there are only 2. Fine, it is a 7-hi flush draw, but the odds that someone else both has the same draw AND the draw gets there are rather low. Fine, there is a redraw, but that doesn't change the fact that if a redraw is possible, your turn equity is huge. There are other poker theories that, at times, override this principle, but if you treat limit poker as street by street prop bets with the taking of poor odds being the cost of admission to the entire pot, you'll do well (or at least slightly better than if you didn't do this).
|
 |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
