Q9s in BB and TT

mxer7734 · #1 08-30-2005, 04:44 PM

Hand 1: Was it right to 3-bet this flop or just call and plan to c/r the turn? Or should I have led out on the flop? The river check seemed obvious to me correct? And the call seemed fairly easy for a pot this large. He could have a wide range of hands from a pair of 8's to an open ended straight draw with QK

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, Button calls.

River: (12.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Button bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

Hand 2: Flopped a monster against a medium sized field in a semi-big pot. Does this call for a slowplay or get the most money in the pot right away?. On the turn there are some problems, just calling MAY get a few additional bets in the pot but also there may be lots of folds and if the original bettor has a 6 he could 3-bet. So both ways has advantages but which way is the best to play this hand and get the maximum from these opponents?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, MP2 folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (12.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 16.75 BB

numeri · #2 08-30-2005, 04:47 PM

Hand 1: This looks fine. You have two other players who like their hands, so there's no need to wait.

Hand 2: Crappy position, but nothing you can do about it. I think a PFR would be expected to raise this flop, and you'd be surprised at how many callers you get. Remember, they all think you have AK. I think a raise here is actually more deceptive than calling.

aces_dad · #3 08-30-2005, 06:07 PM

In hand 2, you're likely facing the field with 2 cold on the turn even if you just check the flop, so you may as well raise the flop there. I do agree it looks worse to raise the turn after PFR/smooth call flop than just raising the flop.

Roadstar · #4 08-30-2005, 06:07 PM

Hand 1: Don't slow play this, read the board - your hand is very vulnerable to flush draws and(higher) straight draws. Ram and Jam! Its unforunate that the board double paired making it more likely that someone filled up a boat.

Hand 2: You can slow play this, again read the board what could ppl possibly be drawing to? Especially when you're right after the bettor and don't want ppl to face 2 cold. Excluding 66, everyone is drawing extremely thin against you edit: (2 outs at best if they happen to have a higher PP (unlikely)

Hope this helps, nh

#5 08-30-2005, 06:10 PM

Hand 2 - Any one considering smooth calling the turn and raising the river? If you're gonna slowplay I don't think your opportunities get much better.

aces_dad · #6 08-30-2005, 06:13 PM

This line makes sense, as you do get one more round of calling on the turn when facing them with 2 cold is likely to blow the field away.

#7 08-30-2005, 06:16 PM

Yeah noone is drawing to hand that could beat you, and you could pick up a few more BB on the turn, and maybe the pot is so big people will call two cold on the river. This is a rare rare case where I might slowplay in a big pot.

tyler_cracker · #8 08-30-2005, 06:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2 - Any one considering smooth calling the turn and raising the river? If you're gonna slowplay I don't think your opportunities get much better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this.

In fact, if all the limpers come along, why raise the river? Is everyone on a gutshot/overcards? Only one limper needs to overcall to make the same as when we raise and UTG+1 calls. Maybe one of the limpers filled in his gutshot and will raise for us?

The downside is that maybe UTG+1 wants to go to war, since he called the turn and lead again on the river.

Thoughts?

Kumubou · #9 08-30-2005, 06:35 PM

Hand 1: Fullll throttleeeeeeee! Straights suck in the sense that lots of hands can have redraws against them that they have no recourse against. While you flopped the nuts, your hand almost certainly will not be as strong by the river. Get that money!

Am I the only one who thinks of bet/folding that river? It takes some stones to raise that river with anything worse than tens full. That just may be excessive FPS on my part.

Hand 2: I hate hands like this. It's a good problem to have, but no line feels right. Slowplaying feels like you are leaving money on the table, but raising just blasts fools drawing dead out of the pot. This very well may a rare instance to slowplay, as people are drawing extremely thin, at best. The only thing people could chase here is an overpair or a gutshot straight or a runner-runner flush; this board is as dry as they come. Raising UTG+1s bet will just blast everyone out of the pot. Now if you had something like JJ or trip 6s, you probably want to raise the flop to get rid of everyone's silly little (yet profitable) gutshot draws and whoknowswhat.

-K