Limit O/8 Hand

[Your Mom]

10/20 Mixed game. This round is O/8. Players are way too loose and love to chase. I open with a raise with A245s. Button calls, SB calls, everyone else folds. Flop is AA3, two diamonds. I don't have a diamond draw. SB bets. This means he has an ace and he will not fold his ace no matter what. I just call. Button, a bad player who has no clue, calls. Turn is a 5, completing the flush. SB bets, I again call, Button calls. River is a black 7. Sb Bets, I raise and button folds unfortunately. SB calls.

Not sure if I should have raised sooner (the flop?) and probably just called the river.

[Sean D]

Seems like you are concerned about losing the button if you raise. This is obviously a great flop for you, as is the turn. So the object is, how to maximize the number of bets in the pot.

A case can be made for both raising or calling here on the flop. When the SB bets, if you raise, the button is going to have a hard time calling two cold, but you say he doesn't have a clue, so maybe he has a flush draw and will chase. Also, you say SB isn't going to let go of his ace, so maybe you can get 4 bets in on the flop if he pops it up again. OTOH, by just calling, you are more likely to get a call behind you, and it is also more likely that SB will bet into you again on the turn.

If you think that button will fold to any aggression by you on any street, then the line you took is best. However, if he had made a hand, then you are missing bets by not raising on earlier streets.

My thoughts: Let the SB keep the initiative on the flop, and make sure button stays in, by just calling. But when SB bets turn, I would raise. If Button made his flush, then, by your description, he would call. If he doesn't, you are only missing one bet. I think you have to take that risk, because if he does have a nut low, or a made high, then you are missing bets.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
10/20 Mixed game. This round is O/8. Players are way too loose and love to chase. I open with a raise with A245s. Button calls, SB calls, everyone else folds. Flop is AA3, two diamonds. I don't have a diamond draw. SB bets. This means he has an ace and he will not fold his ace no matter what. I just call. Button, a bad player who has no clue, calls. Turn is a 5, completing the flush. SB bets, I again call, Button calls. River is a black 7. Sb Bets, I raise and button folds unfortunately. SB calls.

Not sure if I should have raised sooner (the flop?) and probably just called the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise the turn, on the flop you're definately behind, although you equity is sizeable. With the flush and the low hitting, loose players have a lot of reasons to stick around (guys with the flush will think you maybe have the low, guys with the same low will think you have a flush). More to the point, the guy with the ace will peel one off. You can't make players pay for their draw once the river card has hit. So making them pay on the turn is extremely important.

[Your Mom]

I apologize guys. I had A246, not A245. The turn gave me a straight.

[Sean D]

Well that changes things. Raise the turn to pressure any flushes to fold. If SB hasn't filled up yet, this will maximize your chances of scooping. If Button calls two bets on the turn, he likes his hand enough to show it down. In that case, just call river if bet into again.

[Ribbo]

Just calling the flop is absolutely fine. Soon as low hits you can raise it up, especially since it hit the wheel, which is most probably ahead now for high also. The guy with the other ace most certainly will call in the hope of getting half back, and may even pay you off if he doesn't on the river.

[Your Mom]

That makes sense. I still have to learn postflop play in this game as far as when to try to knock people out and when to hope for callers when I will get half the pot. On the river, the Button folded his flush, but the SB made a boat on the river, so I got half.

[Ironman]

I would raise the turn as well (although an arguement can be made to rasie the flop and keep pushing).

Unfortunately, having a "clueless" opponent on a potential flush draw against a full house board can actually work against you. A good thinking player would probably lay down that flush.

Dave

[Ribbo]

I agree, when you're against not so good opponents, wait until you have half before pushing.