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#1
05-22-2005, 02:20 PM
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Aren\'t math and logic just ways of perception?
Don't we use math and logic in the same way we use sight and sound? Aren't they just ways for humans to perceive and understand the universe?
If so, then why do they need to still exist when we die? 
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#5
05-22-2005, 03:05 PM
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Re: Aren\'t math and logic just ways of perception?
[ QUOTE ]
No matter what you say 1+1=2. You cannot dispute this fact. [/ QUOTE ] That's because "2" is defined as "that object which results from adding 1 to itself." As other threads have brought up, math is axiomatic. Currently we are using the Zermelo-Fraenkel axioms (or variants). They are taken as a priori true and cannot be proven or disproven. In fact, axioms are added or removed in different circumstances, and this has consequences on the implications of those remaining axioms. The axioms used are chosen because 1) They seem intuitively reasonable; 2) they are provably consistent (see Godel); 3) they give results which seem to mirror the observed world. But they are still logical constructs, not isomorphic to Reality. Godel also proved this, when he showed that no internally consistent axiomatic system could be used to prove all statements true within that system. In fact, there are infinitely more unprovable statements than provable ones. To recap, math is a human construct, very good and beautiful but not reality itself. As to "math existing after you die," maybe that's from another thread but I have no idea what you mean by it.
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#6
05-22-2005, 06:58 PM
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Re: Aren\'t math and logic just ways of perception?
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Don't we use math and logic in the same way we use sight and sound? Aren't they just ways for humans to perceive and understand the universe? [/ QUOTE ] No, mathematics and logic are not just descriptive. They are predictive. I can analyze a strategy and predict that it will be successful or not before trying it.
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#7
05-23-2005, 11:55 AM
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Re: Aren\'t math and logic just ways of perception?
[ QUOTE ]
To recap, math is a human construct, very good and beautiful but not reality itself. As to "math existing after you die," maybe that's from another thread but I have no idea what you mean by it. [/ QUOTE ] With all the religious talk going on, and the use of math and logic to judge the religions, I was curious if anyone realized that what they were using to judge the religions may not exist at the point at which it really matters.
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#8
05-23-2005, 12:10 PM
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Re: Aren\'t math and logic just ways of perception?
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If you go anywhere around the world, 1+1=2. It's universal, unlike religion. [/ QUOTE ] 1+1=10
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#9
05-23-2005, 10:24 PM
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Re: Aren\'t math and logic just ways of perception?
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No, mathematics and logic are not just descriptive. They are predictive. [/ QUOTE ] A very good point, and it's surprising that a poker player would overlook it.
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#10
05-23-2005, 10:28 PM
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Re: Aren\'t math and logic just ways of perception?
The reason why some mathematicians, logicians and others say that numbers, sets and similar things exist objectively is because of their ontological commitment to them. If they say, "There is a number, 6, such that..." then on the surface that implies that 6 exists. Either you tell a story about why the literal meaning of the sentence is false but still useful, or you leave it at that.
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