how high does bad beat pot have to be for it to be worthwhile to play?

[MatrixMunki]

how high does bad beat pot have to be for it to be worthwhile to play?

[MEbenhoe]

You need to make your question a little clearer if you want a good answer.

[Andy B]

If you play well enough to beat the game, it is worthwhile to play no matter how big the jackpot is. If you can't beat the game, it is unlikely that any jackpot equity is going to transform you from a loser to a winner.

If you're asking how big the jackpot has to be before you're getting a square gamble on the dollar they drop, umm, bigger than it usually is. It would depend on the exact jackpot rules.

[Monty Cantsin]

It's well known that bad beat jackpots are rigged. No one ever, ever wins one.

/mc

[BDP]

Untrue, considering I won one about 2 months ago when my Quad 6s got beat by Quad 7s.

As far as playing for it, I wouldn't recommend changing your game up with the intent of trying to win it. The odds are such a long shot that you'll just lose money if you do. Just play the game how you normally play and if you get lucky enough to hit it, then you do. If you don't, I wouldn't worry about it. That's what I did anyway.

[Iceman]

[ QUOTE ]
how high does bad beat pot have to be for it to be worthwhile to play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is your question: "How high does a bad beat jackpot requiring X have to be to make the $1 jackpot drop worthwhile?" If you're referring to the Partypoker jackpot that requires aces full of kings beaten, and that both winner and loser must use both hole cards, I thought I read somewhere that it's 69,000 to 1 against hitting it.

That said, jackpot games tend to attract loose players who see poker as gambling rather than strategy, and then once in the game many of them will call too much to try and hit the jackpot in situations that really don't merit it (always playing small pairs and suited connectors, for example), which can make those games more profitable than a non-jackpot game despite the -EV of the jackpot drop.

[Fiery Jack]

If you find a bad beat table thats way looser then an equivalent non-bad beat table, thats a good enough reason to play there.

But forget about the jackpot, I mean how often do you win with quads, never mind lose with them? Not that often. I've never lost with quads yet (except at Omaha, where its less uncommon).

[Carl_William]

Re: how high does bad beat pot have to be for it to be worthwhile?

My comments on jackpots:

Jackpots are not really poker -- they are essentially carrots that entice people who get a high one way or another -- that is either winning the jackpot or dreaming about winning it. The long run EVs (expectation {+ or -} for jackpots) are a real downer. Even for the most generous card casinos; probably at the most (and after tipping tokes): only 70% of the money going into jackpots is ever returned to the players.

Other things being equal, the odds of winning a jackpot depend upon the house rules for the jackpot. For a full game, (i.e. 8 handed for LoBal or stud, or 9 or 10 players for flop games), the odds-against an individual hitting a jackpot might be in the range of 20,000 to 100,000 to one (depending upon the house rules). The odds are also drastically affected by how many players playing in the game, and how loose the players are…. If you are a jackpot aficionado, you do not want to play in a game short of players or full of tight players. The odds against hitting a jackpot can easily be doubled tripled or even are much higher when the game is short of players or when most of the players are tight. Other facts about the history of jackpots….

(1) Casinos use jackpots as advertising: That is they increase the size of the jackpots during periods when business is slack or down or for publicity reasons. Thus the odds vary all over the map to the discretion of the casinos – with the customers paying for all of the advertising. This tactic is probably not really fair, but there is no law against casinos doing it (it’s not unlike stock brokerage firms getting big kickbacks for touting certain mutual funds – just recently the government and SEC is clamping down on brokerage firms for using this tactic).

(2) LoBal dealers have been fired by casino for having a history of dealing too many jackpots – this is true. This was caused sometimes by mere chance, but usually by cold decks. Lobal dealers have also been fired by not properly scrambling the deck (an intense shuffle) before every deal.

(3) Also at jackpot casinos, the players often develop or use signals to enhance the chance of hitting a jackpot. For instance, in holdem the flop or turn could consist of three aces; and the players usually mumble at the table that players with no chance of hitting the jackpot should immediately fold their hands – doing this: reduces the chance of the possible jackpot being disqualified or negated (the reason for this is that in holdem, the board plays, and for a valid jackpot, both players with jackpot hands must play both private cards (that is: cards in their hands). If the house is aware of these tactics, they could negate the jackpot. A dealer would never cause a jackpot to be negated, because then he would not get his share of the usual tip – which is usually about 10%. Also….

As some of you know: a LoBal jackpot occurs when a second nut 6 4 {6 4 3 2 ACE} is cracked by a wheel (Bicycle) { 5 4 3 2 ACE}. In the past for LoBal games with big or overlay jackpots; all players in the game have been know to make an agreement to only draw to hands capable of becoming a wheel or {6 4 3 2 Ace}. Also the players agreed never to raise each other, and that only { 7 6 5 4 3} or better hands can be played pat. This strategy reduces the individual odds of hitting a Lobal jackpot to about 1000:1 for an eight handed game. About 10 years ago, this tactic actually caused the biggest Los Angeles casino to drop the jackpot in the 3-6 Lobal game. The casino was aware that the eight players in the game were not really playing LoBal; they were just messing around trying to win the Jackpot -- of course this tactic ruined the fun for legitimate players who enjoyed being in the hunt of real poker games.