$11 - ITM w/OESD

[kevkev60614]

PokerStars Game #2967592888: Tournament #14646093, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2005/11/03 - 23:25:08 (ET)
Table '14646093 1' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 3: Hero (BB) (4705 in chips)
Seat 4: Button (1810 in chips)
Seat 6: SB (6985 in chips)
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Jh Kc]
Button: folds
SB: raises 300 to 450
Hero: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [Qd Th 3c]
SB: bets 600
Hero: raises 900 to 1500
SB: raises 5035 to 6535 and is all-in
Hero: calls 2755 and is all-in

Villain is one of the best I've seen at the $11s, (a dubious distinction, I know,) at least as good as me. He has won most of his chips with aggression, and hasn't shown down that many hands. Of the hands he has shown down, I've noticed he seems to only raise pf with solid starting hands. I didn't notice until a couple of hands after this that he c/fs more than most on the flop.

Sorry about the format; the converter's down.

[tigerite]

I'm not sure, why are you going to war with the biggest stack as the 2nd biggest stack, with the button well out-chipped by both of you? People always see ITM as 'gamboool' time but really it's a mini bubble. Anyway, your raise on the flop is too small, for me. If you're going to go to the felt on this hand, then I'd probably shove here. The call to his shove, in my opinion, is pretty bad. I think I would prefer the line of just calling here, your draw is pretty well disguised anyway, and you will soon find out if your K is good when you hit by his future actions (you would think anyway).

I think what you did here is quite a lot -$EV.

Im thinking a fold preflop is better here. Why mess with the big stack when there is a small stack still out there to be bullied. You have so many BBs left in this im sure you can find a better spot here later on down the way than a straight draw. Have more patience itm. KJ is in no way a monster here.

[wuwei]

I agree with tigerite that if you want to raise the flop, you need to shoove. But I think calling on the flop is the right play. You have position, use it. If he is just c-betting, he'll likely check on the turn and you can take it down with a bet. Your read seems to indicate villian having a hand is more likely after a flop bet. If you hit your hand on the turn, you can put in a bet or raise and possibly get paid off. If you brick the turn and he pots it again, you can fold and maintain your solid 2nd place stack.

[ChrisV]

[ QUOTE ]
The call to his shove, in my opinion, is pretty bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh? Look at the pot odds. Though I agree if he's raising it should be a shove in the first place.

[durron597]

I think his 600 bet on the flop puts you to a push or call decision. It's a very good bet, given stack sizes - what I mean by that is that no matter what he has, it's very easy for you to make a mistake.

The problem with looking at this hand is isolation is that you really need to see the flow. What's your trust level with him? Does he need to have a T or better to make that bet? Does he believe your bets/raises?

[tigerite]

Yes, pot odds, it's a call. But is this all about pot odds, considering even what he's left with is more than the button? By ICM I would say he has to be ahead more than pot odds would dictate at this juncture? I'm guessing the payouts are 0.75/0.25/0 right now.

[ChrisV]

What wuwei said. Your biggest asset in this hand is your position and you destroy that by raising immediately. You could even consider calling another pot or near pot bet on the turn. You don't really have odds, but there's a possibility of taking the pot off him on the river.

[ QUOTE ]
If he is just c-betting, he'll likely check on the turn and you can take it down with a bet.

[/ QUOTE ]I wonder about this. It may be true, but should it be true? When you make a continuation bet and are simply called, do you routinely make another bet on the turn? You should, shouldn't you? Otherwise, you'll be too easy to read. (And, always check raising the turn might be even more expensive than always betting the turn -- and less profitable when your continuation bet is based on a real hand. Also, when your opponent is on a draw, you don't want to check and risk giving him a free card.)

Anyway, I don't think you can be confident that a continuation bet will be followed by a check on the turn.

[kevkev60614]

Methinks you're all right. Thanks for all of the input. Shoulda been this instead:

PokerStars Game #2967592888: Tournament #14646093, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2005/11/03 - 23:25:08 (ET)
Table '14646093 1' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 3: Hero (BB) (4705 in chips)
Seat 4: Button (1810 in chips)
Seat 6: SB (6985 in chips)
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Jh Kc]
Button: folds
SB: raises 300 to 450
Hero: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [Qd Th 3c]
SB: bets 600
Hero: calls 600
*** TURN *** [Qd Th 3c] [7d]
SB: bets 1800
Hero: folds