Donk or check-raise attempt River

SenecaJim · #1 12-09-2005, 01:05 AM

5-10 live. Full table. I have A5s in sb. 5 limpers to me. I complete. BB checks.

Flop is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] second limper bets, it's 10 sb's to me. I have inside straight plus backdoor flush draw, so natch I call.

Turn is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( was hoping for 2) I check, figure
if all are in I will raise field when back to me. But First limper bets and one caller back to me, I call. BB raises after checking. Back to me I call. Figure Blind has at least set of eights.

River is the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] whoopee. Made my flush. Don't have great read on BB yet. joined after other table broke up, but seemed solid with some sense so far. I am feeling flush has to be obvious. I would probably bet into it but I get too aggressive sometimes.

Anyway. I donked it. Did I let my fear of everyone checking get the best of me. Should I have checkraised? All 3 just called the bet.

how is my thinking here? First , I dont want to miss getting paid off at all here. Second, on outside chance there is a full house and I get raised, I'll call it. But, I check raise and get reraised by FH, ouch. That aint' great either.

Should I have gone for more here?

#2 12-09-2005, 05:13 AM

I'd certainly donk it for the same reasons you did, but I'm beginning to reconsider.

The raiser to your left has a made hand nearly always. Backdoor spades won't take the wind out of his sails unless he's the ultimate MUTB nit, and anyone with trip 8s ought to bet if checked to. More money is going in.

Facing a boat, it's -3BB to checkraise and -2BB to donk. We stand to win up to three times that difference when we checkraise the winning flush.

Still, the action to this point is very hard to get a handle on, and donking is as safe as the banks.

goofball · #3 12-09-2005, 06:42 AM

Donking it is a mistake. The aggressor is to your immediate right and you can checkraise all of them here. Donking here costs you cash money fo sho. Even if they all check 33% of the time it's worth it to checkraise. (donk = 3bets, checkraise =6bets *2/3 = 4bets). They need to check through over half the time to make donking better. They won't do that. Checkraise checkraise checkraise.

#4 12-09-2005, 07:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Even if they all check 33% of the time it's worth it to checkraise. (donk = 3bets, checkraise =6bets *2/3 = 4bets). They need to check through over half the time to make donking better. They won't do that. Checkraise checkraise checkraise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. I'm seeing the light. We stand to double our gain, and our two big fears – see it checked down, overpay a boat – will come true under half the time. Probably way under half. Checkraise.

SenecaJim · #5 12-09-2005, 08:56 AM

Yeah, I agree. That's the reason I posted the hand, I felt I made a misplay here. The guy had been whining since he got there about getting rivered at other table, was thinking might be gunshy with trips. But, yes, I should have check-raised. Thanks for response.

Songwind · #6 12-09-2005, 09:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Donking it is a mistake. The aggressor is to your immediate right and you can checkraise all of them here. Donking here costs you cash money fo sho. Even if they all check 33% of the time it's worth it to checkraise. (donk = 3bets, checkraise =6bets *2/3 = 4bets). They need to check through over half the time to make donking better. They won't do that. Checkraise checkraise checkraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're assuming everyone will call 2 cold when the table doesn't check around on an obvious flush river. I don't think we can assume that.

SenecaJim · #7 12-09-2005, 10:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Donking it is a mistake. The aggressor is to your immediate right and you can checkraise all of them here. Donking here costs you cash money fo sho. Even if they all check 33% of the time it's worth it to checkraise. (donk = 3bets, checkraise =6bets *2/3 = 4bets). They need to check through over half the time to make donking better. They won't do that. Checkraise checkraise checkraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're assuming everyone will call 2 cold when the table doesn't check around on an obvious flush river. I don't think we can assume that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Goof made a goof when he typed aggressor was on my right. I was sb and he was bb. I would have said somethig but he went on to talk about chances of everyone checking around so figured he didn't say what he meant but meant what he said. If he was on right and bet , definitely go for 2 overcalls and maybe one of them raise. He checks, I'm betting.

I had feeling he would check if I did with gunshy and and flush card, but still feel like I should have gone for it. I knew neither one of other calling stations would bet, so I was staking it all on the one guy.