Brunson Question.

[muck_nutz]

You are looking at ~40% equity with the straight draw plus backdoor flush. Withhout the backdoor flush you are down to ~35%. Instead of looking at it as SS cookbook try to figure out when you will get the right amount of fold equity to make this push right. Some game conditions you won't ever get it (loose opponent, bad image, short stack, etc.). Others you will (scared opponent, good image, deep stack left on last raise). The one thing to be fairly certain of is that he doesn't have a set 'cuz then you have little to no fold equity and only 25% suckout equity.

[RoundersRocks!]

Brunsons advise is all good advise, but it is so geared at the ultra-high limits, alot of it just dosen't apply. It is a completely diffrent game at every diffrent limit.

[rudedog78]

If im not mistaken this is also something he says he uses alot in tournaments, I dont recall him saying he uses this strategy in a cash game.

In a tournament this is a way better move and one of the reason he likes this move is that since he's so aggro early on and he accumulate chips, he doesnt mind risking a % of his stack while a slight underdog to become a big chip leader without getting his entire stack crippled.

[The Bear]

This question can't be adequately analyzed without hypothetical stack depths.

[warlockjd]

[ QUOTE ]
, I dont recall him saying he uses this strategy in a cash game

[/ QUOTE ]

youre mistaken

[dibbs]

Most of this section was written about real NL games where the money is ultra ultra deep, raises like this can be quite frightening when your top pair is threatened with like 1,000 bbs behind. And he has outs if called, so if the scared money actually calls he can still suck out, which also gives some validity to his raises with sets etc.


Not really applicable to most games today I don't think, unless you really know the guy and think he'll fold TPTK with 90 bbs left or whatever.

JMO.

[warlockjd]

[ QUOTE ]
Most of this section was written about real NL games where the money is ultra ultra deep, raises like this can be quite frightening when your top pair is threatened with like 1,000 bbs behind. And he has outs if called, so if the scared money actually calls he can still suck out, which also gives some validity to his raises with sets etc.


Not really applicable to most games today I don't think, unless you really know the guy and think he'll fold TPTK with 90 bbs left or whatever.

JMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see statements similar to this ALL the time and I just don't understand. I think almost all of Brunson's NL section applies perfectly to the 6 max games.


Am I in the minority here?

[dibbs]

I was probably over-generalizing about the section, can easily see your argument however, using sound judgement on who you pull it on of course. On a side note I think I'll skim that section again cuz its been awhile.

[ChrisW]

IMO the posters so far have missed the point: a play which in itself is -EV can be an integral part of a strategy which is +EV.

This OE+BD is about 42% against AK. Thus, pushing all-in against AK (assuming the push is not a colossal overbet) is a very small minus position considering the dead money in the pot. To illustrate, let's assume that each player started the hand with 100 BB. 76s raised to 4BB, only the big blind calls with AK. Pot is 9BB. The flop comes, the AK checks, 76s bets 6BB, AK checkraises to 15 BB. The pot is now 21BB (the AK's reraise has not yet been pulled into the pot). If 76s moves in, he will lose an additional 90BB 58% of the time and win 111BB 42% of the time. Therefore, the average loss for the push is 6BB, assuming that AK is 100% to call.

Of course, if the AK is calling against a draw 100% of the time, he's also calling when the initial raiser has a set. In those cases, the set is about 98% to win the pot, so the flop push gains 106BB in equity. Lose 6BB on the draws, win 106BB on the sets. Sounds like a good proposition to me. So, the reason to push with 76s in these cases is: you want AK to be willing to get all-in when it hits TPTK. The greater percentage of calls that you get in these situations, the more money you will make on your monster hands.

In reality, a decent opponent's best strategy is to lay down AK in these situations, expecting to be slightly ahead of a strong draw or way behind a set. That's fine too; now you capure pots with the worst hand when you have a draw.

[theWhale]

Very well said CW