adolf hitler, i mean andrew jackson's

[KaneKungFu123]

face is on our currency. in school we learn about the good things he did to make our country stronger and how he was going to hang his VP from the first tree he could find, and the teacher will also read the small paragraph at the buttom with talks about his negative actions against the indians (it leaves out some of the more cute tidbits like how he used to wear clothing made from the indians bodies, etc)

...just thought its interesting, someone talked about how if hitler won wwii then he'd be a hero, i guess its more or less true. the winners will always rewrite history to be more favorable in their eyes. just take a look at the BS taught in our school system about history.

[Iplayboard]

Schools teach little kids of lot of bullshit about US history. Like how the pilgrims came over and befriended the Native Americans, etc.

I think the worst lie is that Columbus discovered America. First of all, considering that Vikings most likely were there hundreds of years earlier, it's factually inaccurate to say Columbus got there first.

More importantly it's hard to say someone "discovered" a continent that was already full of indigenous people. Columbus and his men nearly wiped out an entire race of people, yet he has a holiday named after him. This would be like Europe celebrating Adolf Hitler Day, and that is no exaggeration.

[bobman0330]

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Columbus and his men nearly wiped out an entire race of people, yet he has a holiday named after him. This would be like Europe celebrating Adolf Hitler Day, and that is no exaggeration.


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Actually, it is an exaggeration, and you're stupid if you can't see why. Columbus was a bastard, but surely you don't believe he intended for smallpox to kill the vast majority of the Native American population. Given that he did not understand the germ theory of disease, or immunity, it's hard to see how he could have.

Furthermore, it's hard to see how the Native American population could have avoided being decimated by a massive smallpox epidemic. Eventually Europeans were going to "find" the New World and interact with the Indians. BAM, epidemic.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Columbus and his men nearly wiped out an entire race of people, yet he has a holiday named after him. This would be like Europe celebrating Adolf Hitler Day, and that is no exaggeration.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it is an exaggeration, and you're stupid if you can't see why. Columbus was a bastard, but surely you don't believe he intended for smallpox to kill the vast majority of the Native American population. Given that he did not understand the germ theory of disease, or immunity, it's hard to see how he could have.

Furthermore, it's hard to see how the Native American population could have avoided being decimated by a massive smallpox epidemic. Eventually Europeans were going to "find" the New World and interact with the Indians. BAM, epidemic.

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This is a good point. However, one shouldn't forget that the white man's treatment of the natives left a few things to be desired. The fact that disease would have eventually decimated them doesn't negate the fact that they were also horribly mistreated and forcibly removed from their land.

[bobman0330]

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This is a good point. However, one shouldn't forget that the white man's treatment of the natives left a few things to be desired. The fact that disease would have eventually decimated them doesn't negate the fact that they were also horribly mistreated and forcibly removed from their land.


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I wholeheartedly agree. My only point was that when people compare Columbus to Hitler, they're either seriously overcondemning the former or undercondemning the latter.

[andyfox]

Columbus did not intend for disease to wipe out the Indians. He did intend to enslave them from the moment he first set eyes on them.

"It appears to me, that the people are ingenious, and would be good servants and I am of opinion that they would very readily become Christians, as they appear to have no religion. They very quickly learn such words as are spoken to them. If it please our Lord, I intend at my return to carry home six of them to your Highnesses, that they may learn our language."

[Aytumious]

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Columbus did not intend for disease to wipe out the Indians. He did intend to enslave them from the moment he first set eyes on them.

"It appears to me, that the people are ingenious, and would be good servants and I am of opinion that they would very readily become Christians, as they appear to have no religion. They very quickly learn such words as are spoken to them. If it please our Lord, I intend at my return to carry home six of them to your Highnesses, that they may learn our language."

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Related, though about the Arawaks of the Bahama's, "They were well built, with good bodies and handsome features...They would make fine servants...With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want."

[Iplayboard]

[ QUOTE ]


Actually, it is an exaggeration, and you're stupid if you can't see why. Columbus was a bastard, but surely you don't believe he intended for smallpox to kill the vast majority of the Native American population. Given that he did not understand the germ theory of disease, or immunity, it's hard to see how he could have.

Furthermore, it's hard to see how the Native American population could have avoided being decimated by a massive smallpox epidemic. Eventually Europeans were going to "find" the New World and interact with the Indians. BAM, epidemic.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Columbus made four voyages to the New World. He encountered the Arawaks, who occupied Haiti. An early census of the Arawak was 1.1 million, not counting children. According to a conservative estimate over 3 million Arawak lived on Haiti in pre-Columbian times.

Seeking gold, he enslaved the remaining Arawaks to work the mines. Those who refused had their hands cut off. Conditions for the Arawak become so intolerable that as many as 100 at a time would commit suicide. Women were known to kill their newborn babies, rather than have them raised in such hideous circumstances. Columbus would reward his officers with women to rape. Girls 10 to 12 were especially desired for rape.


When Columbus son took over in 1505, he continued the slaughter. Only some 12,000 remained by 1516. By 1555 not a single Arawak remained."

web page

I'm not blaming Columbus for the demise of every Native American tribe, but clearly he and his men wiped some 3 million Arawaks off the face of the Earth. Hitler and Columbus both committed mass genocide, therefore the comparision is completely valid.

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Actually, it is an exaggeration, and you're stupid if you can't see why. Columbus was a bastard, but surely you don't believe he intended for smallpox to kill the vast majority of the Native American population. Given that he did not understand the germ theory of disease, or immunity, it's hard to see how he could have.

Furthermore, it's hard to see how the Native American population could have avoided being decimated by a massive smallpox epidemic. Eventually Europeans were going to "find" the New World and interact with the Indians. BAM, epidemic.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Columbus made four voyages to the New World. He encountered the Arawaks, who occupied Haiti. An early census of the Arawak was 1.1 million, not counting children. According to a conservative estimate over 3 million Arawak lived on Haiti in pre-Columbian times.

Seeking gold, he enslaved the remaining Arawaks to work the mines. Those who refused had their hands cut off. Conditions for the Arawak become so intolerable that as many as 100 at a time would commit suicide. Women were known to kill their newborn babies, rather than have them raised in such hideous circumstances. Columbus would reward his officers with women to rape. Girls 10 to 12 were especially desired for rape.


When Columbus son took over in 1505, he continued the slaughter. Only some 12,000 remained by 1516. By 1555 not a single Arawak remained."

web page

I'm not blaming Columbus for the demise of every Native American tribe, but clearly he and his men wiped some 3 million Arawaks off the face of the Earth. Hitler and Columbus both committed mass genocide, therefore the comparision is completely valid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you found that on the internet?? Then it must be true!

This webpage doesn't even pass the laugh test. 3 million people on Haiti alone. First of all, Haiti isn't an island. Second, there are only 15 million in both Haiti and the DR today. No way 3 million were subsisting on the same area in that time period.

This article gives 400,000 as a maximal estimate for the entire (pan-Caribbean) population of the Taino, the population enslaved and destroyed by the Spaniards. Furthermore, it notes that most of the decline was due to smallpox. Not genocide...

[Iplayboard]

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This article gives 400,000 as a maximal estimate for the entire (pan-Caribbean) population of the Taino, the population enslaved and destroyed by the Spaniards.

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According to your article, the Taino were a subset of the total Arawak population, so the number range of 100k-400k you provide is meaningless. Basically it just proves there had to have been AT LEAST that many Arawaks.

"The term Arawak (from aru, the Lokono word for cassava flour), was used to designate the friendly Amerindians encountered by the Spanish in the Caribbean. These include the Taino..."

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Furthermore, it notes that most of the decline was due to smallpox. Not genocide...

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This statement isn't actually true. Here is what it actually says.

"The main reasons for the Taino's massive decline was their lack of resistance to disease introduced by Europeans, especially smallpox, and being mercilessly overworked and tortured by the Spanish in mines and on farms. The Spanish also murdered the Taino in countless massacres to try to create obedience through fear."

So it was a combination of disease and the fact that they were brutally murdered.

The actual numbers are insignificant. Who cares if Hitler oversaw the execution of 6 million Jews, and Columbus ONLY killed like 200,000 Native Americans. They both committed mass genocide. It is reprehensible to condone a National holiday that celebrates the achievements of a mass murderer.