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#12
10-10-2005, 01:10 PM
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Re: TPTK vs two callers and an all-in
[ QUOTE ]
first i wouldnt raise that preflop out of the BB against a table that many limpers second theres no way this is a call, easy fold. [/ QUOTE ] not raising preflop decreases the value of AQ greatly. Raise to pick up the blinds, raise to get the pot HU or atleast 3-handed. 
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#13
10-10-2005, 01:12 PM
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Re: TPTK vs two callers and an all-in
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not raising preflop decreases the value of AQ greatly. Raise to pick up the blinds, raise to get the pot HU or atleast 3-handed. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. What do you do when the flop comes Q high and there is action? Anyone could have anything.
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#15
10-10-2005, 01:21 PM
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Re: TPTK vs two callers and an all-in
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do you think you should be calling just because youre even money with the best case scenario? did i read that right? [/ QUOTE ] I'm just trying to figure out how bad this call was. If I'm up against QJ or 66, then which player has it? If I'm not then: If I'm up against an open ended straight draw, nut flush draw, and KQ, they have 22 outs against me. So I'm like what, 25-30% to win here? If they all call, final pot will be around $1450, giving me 4.3:1 odds. I'm not arguing that I was right, I'm just need someone to explain more clearly why this is such a "clear fold."
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#17
10-10-2005, 01:37 PM
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Re: TPTK vs two callers and an all-in
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] do you think you should be calling just because youre even money with the best case scenario? did i read that right? [/ QUOTE ] I'm just trying to figure out how bad this call was. If I'm up against QJ or 66, then which player has it? If I'm not then: If I'm up against an open ended straight draw, nut flush draw, and KQ, they have 22 outs against me. So I'm like what, 25-30% to win here? If they all call, final pot will be around $1450, giving me 4.3:1 odds. I'm not arguing that I was right, I'm just need someone to explain more clearly why this is such a "clear fold." [/ QUOTE ] FWIW, I agree with you, but without much doubt I think the person pushing has one of two hands: 80% of me thinks 66, 20% QJ and wants to get callers chasing flush and str. Assuming that at least one person (most likely the pusher) has this hand you're either drawing to three outs or needing something runner runner to take the pot. You don't have any good redraws (i.e., not even a backdoor flush draw, for what little that's worth). Clear fold to me unless you have a great read that the pusher is an utter fool. Save your money for a time with better equity.
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#18
10-10-2005, 01:38 PM
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Re: TPTK vs two callers and an all-in
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You just explained it yourself. If they all have the exact hands they need to have to not have you utterly crushed, you are still barely getting a good price. [/ QUOTE ] exactly its very possible that CO has a draw. what he did is typical of a T9s or KTs. if he pushes he has good fold equity and if he is called he still has a crapload of outs. You're behind him, but the dead money will make it even. If that is your best case scenario, then its pretty easily to see my point. Why call if the best case is that you are even? Then all the times you are crushed make it -EV. no read on him?
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#20
10-10-2005, 01:50 PM
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Re: TPTK vs two callers and an all-in
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I agree with you, but without much doubt I think the person pushing has one of two hands: 80% of me thinks 66, 20% QJ and wants to get callers chasing flush and str. Assuming that at least one person (most likely the pusher) has this hand you're either drawing to three outs or needing something runner runner to take the pot. You don't have any good redraws (i.e., not even a backdoor flush draw, for what little that's worth). Clear fold to me unless you have a great read that the pusher is an utter fool. Save your money for a time with better equity. [/ QUOTE ] I understand what you're saying. If you had QJ or 66, would you play it the way the button did? Pushing all in lets a lot of hands off the hook that would call a smaller raise. Him moving all in gives anyone who wants to call just over 2:1 odds to call, meaning, they could correctly fold a draw. If I were him and had QJ or 66, I would raise less (like make it $150), and expect everyone to call, then get it in on the turn. But then again, I would be trying to get as much money in as I could, rather than trying to blow out the draws on the flop. By the same token, if I were UGT+1 or MP, I would absolutely RAISE with 66 and QJ before hearing from the players behind me, because calling the $50 gives them CORRECT odds to chase. And would expect to be called by BB who looks like he might have AA, KK, AQ. Is this sound reasoning?
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