Middle Set with 4 way action

[rwanger]

6 Handed, Party $200nl
Hero has $400
UTG has $400
UGT + 1 has $250
UGT + 2 has $75

UTG min raises to $4, UGT + 1 calls, UTG + 2 calls, Hero calls in BB with TT

Flop JT2 rainbow. Hero checks.
UTG bets out $15 into $17 pot
UTG + 1 calls
UTG + 2 goes all in for his last $71

Pot is around $130

You've been beating up on UTG + 2 and, with the second nuts, are not worried about his hand.

Do you flat call here, or move all in and try to eliminate draws? Are there too many scary turn cards that might beat you or kill your action? Does the answer change if the board is double suited? (it may have been, I'll have to look back)

[Finite_Risk]

Any card greater than J could give someone either a st8 or set...I keep raising right here (I would put the pusher on KQ)

[swolfe]

just call and hope UTG calls with AA/KK/QQ

really, though, you should lead this flop.

[fuzzbox]

I think I flat call and open push on any turn.

I cant see UTG calling with AK here. I cant see him open raising KQ. JJ is possible, but you are gonna lose it all to JJ and take it on the chin.

I call.
Double suitedness might make a difference, Im not sure. What is UTG likely to have ?

[rwanger]

I didn't have that great of a read on anyone except the guy was beating up on UTG+2. UTG seemed like a solid player who was staying out of my way for the most part.

Maybe a call and then push is in order. I guess at the time, I may have considered it were it not for the fact that there was another player still in the hand, who had been the first one to call the pot sized bet. Do I want to give two opponents a shot at this one?

Doing math aloud...if I call there will be $185 in the pot...so the other two potential callers are forced to call something like $55 into $185 or 3.5:1. And if UTG calls, then UTG + 1 is paying $55 into a pot of $240, over 4:1.

I might not want to give them those odds.

Honestly, I thought that UTG either had a small pocket pair or maybe some high cards that were solid, but not AA/KK etc. He could conceivably play 33 this way right?

Usually I do lead this flop, but for some reason I checked it. It might have been because the raiser was on my immediate left, and I expected him to bet, so I wanted to pin everyone else between us.

Also, I meant to ask "Does it matter if the flop has two to a suit"? (not double suited, which would imply I'm talking about the turn...too much omaha on the brain)

[SonOfWestwood]

I had a similar hand to this recently, where it was a JTx flop and I had a set of J's. 4 or 5 way action, and I tried to trap extra people in the hand too, instead of trying to raise big on the flop to make people pay for their draws. It was a mistake, and I learned it the hard way...

I'm definitely betting/raising boards like these now.

[The_Bends]

If you can bank on UTG to make a continuation bet then checking is a fantastic play which can get you a whole shed load of dead money in the pot before it comes back round to you and you check raise. As it happened I'd be jumping for joy. I think call and then all in on the turn is the correct play if you want all of UTGs chips. Its very unlikely he is drawing to a straight with an UTG raise so you can disregard the negative side of giving a 'free' card. Pushing on the flop gives him a chance to get away from an overpair.

JJ will happen sometimes but not often enough to make not getting all your money in the correct play.

[RedRum]

Giving sweet pot odds to 2 players with JT out there, I'd push in this situation. I might lose out on the stack of UTG or +1 if they miss, but I'm not gonna get stacked by allowing 4:1 call on the straight draw.

Feed your 400 to the pot and showdown against just 1. If you get called by the straight draw, at least you know you took away his odds first.

Drink More,
RedRum