I need help :)

[Eager2Learn]

Hey guys, Found this forum and have spent the better part of the day reading different threads. Learning a lot more than I seem to learn reading books. Im glad to see there are so many people willing to help 'noobs' like me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I have read a couple of threads about playing weak players but am still a bit confused...probly because some of the finer details Im missing. Let me start by describing the home game I usually play in and ask a few questions.

I usually play in a game with 3-5 friends, no limit, for buyins of 5-10$...small I know but thats the most they wanna play for, with blinds of 25-50c. I guess my first question would be if this is a horrible set-up? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

One of the guys I play with is pretty new to poker (we had to explain blinds to him and he still forgets whether a flush beats a straight or not). He plays a mix of loose and conservative. Not a lot of folds preflop but he almost always calls, hardly ever raises...unless hes got a great hand or is bluffing to steal the blinds/pot. Another guy who regularly plays is much better than him and almost always wins. He has a few tells (grabs his chips after he checks if its a check-raise) but otherwise I cant really tell why he is able to win so much. He also sees most of the flops but folds a bit more pre-flop and bets moderately after the flop...though it hardly ever pushes out the first guy since he always calls. Im usually in the middle of the spread...but havent won a game yet. My girlfriend played a while last game and ended up second in front of me (how embarassing) and she is passive preflop and calls a lot but never big bets (so shes easy to bluff if shes the only one in the pot - but with the other guys always calling thats difficult.

So now that I set that up, my questions is: What am I doing wrong? I've tried ultra-conservative but get blinded out in a 3-5way set up, I tried semi conservative and then betting big to push people off of lesser hands if I have TPnK on the flop (to no avail because they always call), and when I dont bet big but am atleast semi-aggressinve, I get called and lose on the river a lot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] What should I do?

Specifically, what hands should I play preflop, and what should I hope for on the flop. Should I play loose or tight (both early and late (in 1 on 1)). Also, bluffing obviously doesnt work nor does aggressive play to get them out of pots before they hit the river...so how can I play good hands, or moderate hands, or great hands? What are the winning rules of engagement against these kind of players in this kind of game? Basically I need a nuts and bolts assessment of what to do [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] preferably without too many acronyms because sometimes I have no idea what they mean (being new and all) Thanks guys! I REALLY appreciate it. I have read the other two threads about strategy along the same lines and understand some of it but could really use someone to just clarify this stuff. Thank you so much again guys. I am eager to learn from you guys and would love to start a discussion. I have a lot to learn!

C

[StevieG]

Hey, Eager, welcome to 2+2. I've browsed these pages for two years now and I'm still learning things all the time.

[ QUOTE ]


I usually play in a game with 3-5 friends, no limit, for buyins of 5-10$...small I know but thats the most they wanna play for, with blinds of 25-50c. I guess my first question would be if this is a horrible set-up? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a good setup. Nothing wrong with the buy-in - play with what you want to risk. But those blinds are too large for the buy in. You are artificially making everyone at the table a short stack. Consider 10/20 cent blinds.

By and large it sounds like the players in your game are not conservative, but passive. They are calling along and not actively starting action. It may frustrate you now, but as you grow in ability, you will realize this is an excellent set of opponents.

Now as for the specific strategy questions, first continue reading a lot here (NL forums are a good spot for your game), then try posting some specific hand examples there.

This is microlimit forum FAQ but it should get you started on terms and etiquette.

[TwinTowers]

The "rule of thumb" that I use for blinds is: buy-in/40-50. For example, if your buy-in is $20, divide that by 40, and you have $.50 (blinds .25/.50). With a $10 buy-in, divide that by 40 (blinds .15/.25) or by 50 (.10/.20).

You can also work from the other side. If you want your blinds at a certian amount, multiply the Big Blind by 40 or 50. For example, a .$50 big blind, multiplied by 50 = a buy-in of $25.

The goal of having blinds proportional to the buy-in is to aviod being blinded out. You guys are their to play poker, not just gamble and hope for lucky cards on your blinds.

Another good rule to follow...RAISE...3 times the Big Blind if you like your hand. If you dont like it...FOLD. Once you get a read on your table, you can adjust from their, but make the hands you play worthwhile.

[TomHimself]

I like to have the buy in 100x the big blind, so a 5cent/10cent would work for you guys if you brought 10 dollars to the table and even 5 dollars.

[Lottery Larry]

", no limit, for buyins of 5-10$...small I know but thats the most they wanna play for, with blinds of 25-50c. I guess my first question would be if this is a horrible set-up?"

Drop your blinds down to $0.05/$0.10 or $0.10/0.15, if you're setting a cap at $10.00.

[smoore]

Personally, I wouldn't mind playing in a game like this with only 20xBB stacks, I would just have a pocket full of 10's and play preflop poker until I doubled up. i.e. if you want to play, push the stack in. This will piss everyone off but can be quite effective. When they complain tell them that the max buyin should be raised to at least $25 if they want to play with .25/.50 blinds. I don't mind $25@.25/.50 but would prefer $25@.10/.25. If the acceptable risk is only $10 the blinds should definitely be lowered.

RE strategy: OK, you've figured out they aren't going to fold. Adjust your play appropriately. You're going to value bet hands a lot and when you do get a monster MAKE THEM PAY [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Don't bluff. Be ready to get away from AK when it doesn't hit because... they're going to call you down. I make big, stack-sized bets in games like this (something I don't even do in my own $25 game much) because I'm a gamb000lor when the stakes are so low and it's the only bet that calling stations even think about laying down to.

The last $10 game I was in I put $30 on the table in the first hour. Three hours into it I had $60 in front of me. I'm agressive baybee! If you're constantly putting your stack in people get sick of it and will call you with the strangest things. One memorable hand I had an OESD on the flop, pushed and got called by something like 8 high. I didn't hit my straight but won with my 9 high. He called with his lower, gutshot draw. Then he got mad at me. Weird. (he got over it)

[Eager2Learn]

Thanks for all the helpful tips guys. I'm learning a lot.

About value-betting, could you be more specific. Maybe just a general guidline on which hands would be considered at which value. Also, the 'push-in' method seems to work right up til the point that someone actually gets a better hand and calls (knocking me out) so what hands should you push all in on?

Also, Ive been reading a lot of threads today about micro/low stakes and they seem to say not to be ultratight before the flop (play more hands but still dont play trash)...but what about after the flop? And above what hands would be considered good/trash in this kinda game

Sorry guys...I know Im a bit scattered...but just trying to learn :P

C

[smoore]

I didn't know you were playing a freezeout style. I figured you could rebuy whenever you wanted (cash game). That'll change stuff some, if the blinds never increase I'd probably peddle the nuts until I got down to $3 and then be ready to go in with any two face cards or any wired pair.

If you want to play a freezeout tournament, head over to homepokertourney.com and check out blind schedules, tournament software and starting chips.

A value bet is a moderate bet on the river when you have a mediocre hand. Say you hold A7s and the turn brings a 7. From the action you think you MAY have the best hand but aren't sure. You might "value bet" on the end because someone might call you with a WORSE hand. The concept of a value bet states that a worse hand could call you... it's just throwing away money if you'll only get called by a better hand (pair of 8's in the example).

[Eager2Learn]

Sorry...should have specified [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] BTW sorry for my ignorance...but by peddle the nuts what do you mean? I know nuts is the best hand...but what do I go in on preflop generally and how do I play it...mostly raising or mostly calling (Ive noticed some threads say raise and some say smooth call alot). And what do I look for on the flop...and how often should I stay in for turn/river...I guess thats when value betting comes in, but what generally would be considered bad, good, great value (just very generally...I know you dont want to haveta explain a hands chart lol)

C

[smoore]

People who "peddle the nuts" are playing very tight, usually weak-tight. When they come out betting you better think long and hard about calling.

As far as your other strategy questions, it sounds like you need a book or two and some experience. Depending on how much of a noob you are either WLLH (winning low limit holdem, jones) or SSH (Small Stakes Holdem) will be good to learn how to play limit poker. I'm not aware of a good noob NL book, HoH (Harrington on Holdem) is next on my reading list. I learned how to play limit first and the only book I had available for NLHE was Super System, Brunson. Now all I want to play is NLHE [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Now, betting... this is something I love to talk about. I'm agressive, I rarely call a raise I either reraise or fold *normally*. One exception is the "stop-n-go"... say I hold something like KK and raise it. You reraise me and I'm out of position so I just call. The flop comes out J high... I'm probably putting my whole stack in right there. I stopped by smooth calling, then I "go'd" by pushing. Man I hope you're holding AJ so you call in a shot with way the worst of it. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] It might be foolish to do this same move with QQ depending on opposition.

I limp into a lot of hands, even with trash, and try to hit the flop really hard so I can break people. IMO, this is suicide for a new player. If I seem to be running well in a home game I'll be playing 50% of my hands. I'm much tighter against tougher opposition, 25% would be a loose night.

In limit poker, position is everything. In no limit poker it's the ONLY thing. As you get more experience you will start to notice situations where the cards really don't matter. It's all position and betting. Experience is the best teacher so you might want to go play some playmoney NLHE on an online site.