RFID tracking in Calif. school

[Cyrus]

So many principles are being violated by this vile decision, that it's amazing it finds support at all. Briefly:

- This is a measure that assumes guilt rather than innocence on the part of those wearing the RFID, which undermines the very basis of the legal system.

- The assumption leads more persons than otherwise towards "fulfilling the assumptions" of the RFID. When you call someone a jerk often enough, he will finally, probably get to be one.

- It shows a failure on the part of the parents to properly educate and bring up their offspring. This failure is conveniently ignored and their responsibility unloaded on a third party, the school system -- and its silly RFIDs!

- Free thinking itself is restricted. You don't think so? Then you must believe that a person will generally function as a free human being the same way when he is monitored and when he is not. This claim, though, would run against the consensus of psychology.

- That decrease in free thinking is not just morally wrong but bad for society, as a whole. (I trust the reason is obvious).

- From "irresponsible" students to "unruly" citizens. The increased monitoring of the citizenry by the forces of law and order is not to be condoned, not even if it is perpetrated in the name of some scary bogeyman, like the War On Terror. I understand that this is difficult for some Bush supporters to accept, so I'd invite them to assume that Michael Moore was president. Would you, fellas, want him to give his police such powers?

- Entropy must be resisted, not facilitated.

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
- This is a measure that assumes guilt rather than innocence on the part of those wearing the RFID, which undermines the very basis of the legal system.

[/ QUOTE ]

What privacy rights of elementary school children are being violated? They aren't implanting an RFID device in someone's body. Undermining the basis for the legal system? Too funny.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
What privacy rights of elementary school children are being violated? They aren't implanting an RFID device in someone's body. Undermining the basis for the legal system? Too funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the original article: "The system was imposed by the school ... as a way to potentially reduce vandalism and improve student safety."

Therefore, all children are assumed to be suspicious of vandalism and/or a threat to others' safety. Under the guise of additional, "well intentioned" reasons, the measure is adopted --- and schoolchildren learn, first-hand, that in American society there is no such thing as habeas corpus.

If that's not undermining the legal system, and at its very foundations too (=the minds of the students), I don't know what is.

Imagine the indignant outcry if communist China was to adopt such a system.

(Or France ... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])



ABC News original article

[natedogg]

Once again, I agree with Cyrus completely. Strange how often that happens.

natedogg

[elwoodblues]

It doesn't undermine the legal system because nothing implicated about the "legal system" when a school does something like this. Do school children learn that there is no free speech when they have to raise their hands to speak in class? Does that undermine the legal system? Do school children learn that we don't have freedom of movement/travel when they are punished for skipping school/classes? Does that undermine the legal system?

[knifeandfork]

"It is very disturbing technology to say the least. But of course you start it in the schools. Schools are the training ground of control for the human condition."...
"No, the schools are where it starts. Locker searches, metal detectors, cameras, and now RFID tags. It moves from the class room, into society."
im a few days late for this discussion but i think this is the most important point of the thread if you train the kiddies to accept it its easier to spread /implement down the road.
great post tracker!

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't undermine the legal system because nothing [is implied] about the "legal system" when a school does something like this. Do school children learn that there is no free speech when they have to raise their hands to speak in class?

[/ QUOTE ] Raising your hand in class to ask permission to speak is not equivalent to RFIDs. Raising your hand to speak is a necessary technical measure, needed to maintain the speakers' order. (If we had only 1 student in every class, the raising of hands would have been rendered somewhat obsolete!)

Here's the right equivalent: When the teacher informs the children that, from now on, everything they are ever gonna say in class will be recorded, transcripted and tracked -- and then, if necessary, used against them--- then yes, this puts a serious chill on freedom of speech! "We are not implying you will say anything wrong", the teacher will assure the kids, "but, you know ...just in case".


[ QUOTE ]
Does that undermine the legal system? Do school children learn that we don't have freedom of movement/travel when they are punished for skipping school/classes?

[/ QUOTE ] Punishing children for skipping class is perfectly alright. But explicitly labeling a child as an "Official Candidate To Skip Class" by clamping on 'im an RFID is a different matter altogether!

And, yes, this severely undermines the belief of that kid to the legal system. The kid will realize that in modern society you are guilty until not proven guilty!

If we no longer understand why the presumption of innocence is basic to western civilisation, we are in deeper trouble than we realize. The religious fundamentalists will have won.

(The presumption of guilt --viz. Original Sin-- is a basic tenet of Christianity.)

[knifeandfork]

when they locked my car in the school parking lot i didnt like it, this seems worse.

[elwoodblues]

When you are on school property the school has EVERY RIGHT to know exactly where you are at all times. I don't know why people believe that while on school property you have the right to be unseen.