I need help :)

[Eager2Learn]

Hey guys, Found this forum and have spent the better part of the day reading different threads. Learning a lot more than I seem to learn reading books. Im glad to see there are so many people willing to help 'noobs' like me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I have read a couple of threads about playing weak players but am still a bit confused...probly because some of the finer details Im missing. Let me start by describing the home game I usually play in and ask a few questions.

I usually play in a game with 3-5 friends, no limit, for buyins of 5-10$...small I know but thats the most they wanna play for, with blinds of 25-50c. I guess my first question would be if this is a horrible set-up? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

One of the guys I play with is pretty new to poker (we had to explain blinds to him and he still forgets whether a flush beats a straight or not). He plays a mix of loose and conservative. Not a lot of folds preflop but he almost always calls, hardly ever raises...unless hes got a great hand or is bluffing to steal the blinds/pot. Another guy who regularly plays is much better than him and almost always wins. He has a few tells (grabs his chips after he checks if its a check-raise) but otherwise I cant really tell why he is able to win so much. He also sees most of the flops but folds a bit more pre-flop and bets moderately after the flop...though it hardly ever pushes out the first guy since he always calls. Im usually in the middle of the spread...but havent won a game yet. My girlfriend played a while last game and ended up second in front of me (how embarassing) and she is passive preflop and calls a lot but never big bets (so shes easy to bluff if shes the only one in the pot - but with the other guys always calling thats difficult.

So now that I set that up, my questions is: What am I doing wrong? I've tried ultra-conservative but get blinded out in a 3-5way set up, I tried semi conservative and then betting big to push people off of lesser hands if I have TPnK on the flop (to no avail because they always call), and when I dont bet big but am atleast semi-aggressinve, I get called and lose on the river a lot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] What should I do?

Specifically, what hands should I play preflop, and what should I hope for on the flop. Should I play loose or tight (both early and late (in 1 on 1)). Also, bluffing obviously doesnt work nor does aggressive play to get them out of pots before they hit the river...so how can I play good hands, or moderate hands, or great hands? What are the winning rules of engagement against these kind of players in this kind of game? Basically I need a nuts and bolts assessment of what to do [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] preferably without too many acronyms because sometimes I have no idea what they mean (being new and all) Thanks guys! I REALLY appreciate it. I have read the other two threads about strategy along the same lines and understand some of it but could really use someone to just clarify this stuff. Thank you so much again guys. I am eager to learn from you guys and would love to start a discussion. I have a lot to learn!

C

[StevieG]

Hey, Eager, welcome to 2+2. I've browsed these pages for two years now and I'm still learning things all the time.

[ QUOTE ]


I usually play in a game with 3-5 friends, no limit, for buyins of 5-10$...small I know but thats the most they wanna play for, with blinds of 25-50c. I guess my first question would be if this is a horrible set-up? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a good setup. Nothing wrong with the buy-in - play with what you want to risk. But those blinds are too large for the buy in. You are artificially making everyone at the table a short stack. Consider 10/20 cent blinds.

By and large it sounds like the players in your game are not conservative, but passive. They are calling along and not actively starting action. It may frustrate you now, but as you grow in ability, you will realize this is an excellent set of opponents.

Now as for the specific strategy questions, first continue reading a lot here (NL forums are a good spot for your game), then try posting some specific hand examples there.

This is microlimit forum FAQ but it should get you started on terms and etiquette.

[TwinTowers]

The "rule of thumb" that I use for blinds is: buy-in/40-50. For example, if your buy-in is $20, divide that by 40, and you have $.50 (blinds .25/.50). With a $10 buy-in, divide that by 40 (blinds .15/.25) or by 50 (.10/.20).

You can also work from the other side. If you want your blinds at a certian amount, multiply the Big Blind by 40 or 50. For example, a .$50 big blind, multiplied by 50 = a buy-in of $25.

The goal of having blinds proportional to the buy-in is to aviod being blinded out. You guys are their to play poker, not just gamble and hope for lucky cards on your blinds.

Another good rule to follow...RAISE...3 times the Big Blind if you like your hand. If you dont like it...FOLD. Once you get a read on your table, you can adjust from their, but make the hands you play worthwhile.

[TomHimself]

I like to have the buy in 100x the big blind, so a 5cent/10cent would work for you guys if you brought 10 dollars to the table and even 5 dollars.

[smoore]

Personally, I wouldn't mind playing in a game like this with only 20xBB stacks, I would just have a pocket full of 10's and play preflop poker until I doubled up. i.e. if you want to play, push the stack in. This will piss everyone off but can be quite effective. When they complain tell them that the max buyin should be raised to at least $25 if they want to play with .25/.50 blinds. I don't mind $25@.25/.50 but would prefer $25@.10/.25. If the acceptable risk is only $10 the blinds should definitely be lowered.

RE strategy: OK, you've figured out they aren't going to fold. Adjust your play appropriately. You're going to value bet hands a lot and when you do get a monster MAKE THEM PAY [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Don't bluff. Be ready to get away from AK when it doesn't hit because... they're going to call you down. I make big, stack-sized bets in games like this (something I don't even do in my own $25 game much) because I'm a gamb000lor when the stakes are so low and it's the only bet that calling stations even think about laying down to.

The last $10 game I was in I put $30 on the table in the first hour. Three hours into it I had $60 in front of me. I'm agressive baybee! If you're constantly putting your stack in people get sick of it and will call you with the strangest things. One memorable hand I had an OESD on the flop, pushed and got called by something like 8 high. I didn't hit my straight but won with my 9 high. He called with his lower, gutshot draw. Then he got mad at me. Weird. (he got over it)

[Eager2Learn]

Thanks for all the helpful tips guys. I'm learning a lot.

About value-betting, could you be more specific. Maybe just a general guidline on which hands would be considered at which value. Also, the 'push-in' method seems to work right up til the point that someone actually gets a better hand and calls (knocking me out) so what hands should you push all in on?

Also, Ive been reading a lot of threads today about micro/low stakes and they seem to say not to be ultratight before the flop (play more hands but still dont play trash)...but what about after the flop? And above what hands would be considered good/trash in this kinda game

Sorry guys...I know Im a bit scattered...but just trying to learn :P

C

[smoore]

I didn't know you were playing a freezeout style. I figured you could rebuy whenever you wanted (cash game). That'll change stuff some, if the blinds never increase I'd probably peddle the nuts until I got down to $3 and then be ready to go in with any two face cards or any wired pair.

If you want to play a freezeout tournament, head over to homepokertourney.com and check out blind schedules, tournament software and starting chips.

A value bet is a moderate bet on the river when you have a mediocre hand. Say you hold A7s and the turn brings a 7. From the action you think you MAY have the best hand but aren't sure. You might "value bet" on the end because someone might call you with a WORSE hand. The concept of a value bet states that a worse hand could call you... it's just throwing away money if you'll only get called by a better hand (pair of 8's in the example).

[Lottery Larry]

", no limit, for buyins of 5-10$...small I know but thats the most they wanna play for, with blinds of 25-50c. I guess my first question would be if this is a horrible set-up?"

Drop your blinds down to $0.05/$0.10 or $0.10/0.15, if you're setting a cap at $10.00.

[six_4off]

If you ask me, I think that the main problem does lie in your setup. My home game is pretty much the same set up, w/ a minimum of a 20 dollar buy in. Sometimes there are players who try to buy in w/ 10 and are buried alive before they deal 3 times. I reccommend lowering the blinds or increasing the buy in.

Furthermore, your story reminds me of a concept in Sklansky's Theory of Poker when he describes a game that he couldn't win. He was better than his opponents and the blinds were high relative to the limits. He later figured out that their loose and quite frankly weak play worked because of the blind structure. Sklansky would lay down a lot of hands during pots when his opponent was holding something like 10/q suited. He determined that he was a dog in that game because of that reason. This might be the case with you.

Not sure if that helped but hope that it did.

[Eager2Learn]

Thanks for all the help guys. I really appreciate your advice and your patience with what probly seems like a series of pretty simple questions.

I have 2 poker books...one by Hellmuth (Play Poker Like the Pros) and also Super System. I guess what Im really confused on is that both seem suited more for advanced play against better opponents. Hellmuth says play 77-AA and AK/AQ for beginners only. Brunson allows for more hands but also says that little of his advice will work against 'weak' players. He says to play fundamentally better rather than strategically better....but Im not quite sure which advice to apply to strategic and whioch is fundamental.

Would anyone mind giving a brief synopsis of play in 'weak' games...the hands you play before the flop, general betting style pre and post flop, and tips to playing these kinds of people. I know now I should change the blinds style...thanks much for all the tips on that! But Im stuck as to what kind of play/hands/betting is most effective against these kinds of players?

Thanks again for all the help and patience everyone. And thanks also to smoore for answering some pretty dumb questions ;P

C