30-60 Stud High Hand - Lot of Action With a Weakish Holding

[Jeffage]

Interesting hand. Anyone slow down before I do? What about 6th? I have to call with the odds I'm getting right? What would you have done if someone bet the river? What do you put my opponents on?

Jeff


7 Card Stud ($30/$60), Ante $5, Bring-In $10 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.50 SB)

Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___raises
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls

4th Street - (6.50 SB)

Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls

5th Street - (4.75 BB)

Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls

6th Street - (7.75 BB)

Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls

River - (10.75 BB)

Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___checks
Seat 8: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___checks

Total pot: (10.75 BB)

[Andy B]

I suck at three-handed, but I think you played this one about right.

[mscags]

I have no idea what either of them have, but I probably check sixth as well. Fifth is your first real chance to get the pot so you need to bet it obviously, since they both called though I think it is correct to check sixth and seventh. Not sure what I do about the river if they bet into me. I'm probably calling just to see what they have. Back to studying [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Yarney]

At first look I see three people that all think that each one of them is shooting for a low. A lot of times (bad) players in this situation are more likely to take cards off since they think they have a chance to fall in to the high hand as well. Its tough to say what anyone actually ended up with, but I imagine they started with two low draws and maybe a flush draw in there somewhere. I would bet sixth just to keep the heat on, but check the end. Betting sixth in this situation probably gets you a free action on seventh to use at your discretion.

I'm sorry if that didn't make sense, its late and im looking forward to seeing where my thought process lapsed when I recheck this thread in the morning.

-Yarney

[benwood]

Their hands: (1)Seat 6. On 4th-4 to a lo or pr & 3 lo. 5th-No help. 6th-Open end st draw. River-Complete miss, rough 8 lo, 1 pr, or 2 pr. Any of these. (2)Seat 8. 4 lo that never improved. Call 6th. Your hand may still be good. Same on river.

[mscags]

Stud Hi

[CarlosChadha]

Their boards are mildly scary (on 6th), but you have been given no reason to believe that your Js aren't good on 6th. I would bet 6th, especially after catching a a gut shot str8 draw in case I am behind. Most probably you are up against 2 smaller pairs, or a pair and a str8 or flush draw, but sure, someone could be slowplaying 2 pair or trips (or maybe just As or Ks). On the river I would definitely not overcall, but I would make a crying call of a single person's bet. In general, if I believe I had the best hand going into the river I almost always payoff a single bet on the river without improvement heads up or 3 way (if I am not over calling) because the pot odds are too big.

The real time to get scared is on 4th when one opponent catches a str8 flush card, and the other catches an Ace, while you totally rag off. This is the place I would check. This helps to define your opponents hands on 4th, plus you don't really care about giving a free card because you are at best only slightly ahead at this point. In fact the only time you have more than 33% equity in the pot is when both your opponents have smaller pairs (about 32% to 40% equity depending on other overcards or 3 flushes/str8s). If the 6 seat has a flush or str8 draw and/or the 6 seat has a par of As or better, you have less than 25% equity in the pot.

Checking here also makes our own hand harder to read, by betting into those strong boards you are basically affirming what you "said" on 3rd: that you have a big pair in the hole.

If it gets checked through on 4th, there is a very good chance that you will be able to play the pot head up on 5th because the 8 seat might very well take a stab at the pot (hoping you were on a flush draw, and now you and the 6 seat both have dead 7s), and now you can raise him to knock out the 8 seat (and gaining last position). Or if the 8 seat checks again, your bet will most likely run out one or both of your opponents, since the pot is now smaller.

One good aspect of betting 4th is that is prevents the 8 seat form making the tricky (but smart) play of check raising the 6 seat with only a pair of 4s and an overcard, forcing you out of the pot. But there are few opponents smart, creative and ballsy enough to try this check raise without having atleast a pair of As.

-Carlos

[Jeffage]

[ QUOTE ]
The real time to get scared is on 4th when one opponent catches a str8 flush card, and the other catches an Ace, while you totally rag off. This is the place I would check. This helps to define your opponents hands on 4th, plus you don't really care about giving a free card because you are at best only slightly ahead at this point. In fact the only time you have more than 33% equity in the pot is when both your opponents have smaller pairs (about 32% to 40% equity depending on other overcards or 3 flushes/str8s). If the 6 seat has a flush or str8 draw and/or the 6 seat has a par of As or better, you have less than 25% equity in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is interesting. What does everyone think of this? I almost always keep driving in these spots.

Jeff

[Yarney]

[ QUOTE ]
Stud Hi

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured that I missed at least one key part of the hand... Man I feel like an idiot. I could have sworn that said stud hi/lo.

-Yarney

[MRBAA]

Was this a three handed game? Or did you just put the live opponents in and omit the others who folded? If it's three handed, I think you played it fine. If it's a full game, I think your raise on third is a little aggro, although I realize that the structure puts 5/6 bb in the pot to fight over in a full game, promoting somewhat more aggressive play on early streets