When Noobs attack part 2

[scrapperdog]

Hi guys, I posted a few weeks ago and got some good info from you good people. Guess what i learned yesterday? The best hand showing goes first, after the bring in round. I knew the bring in round was low card but it took 2 weeks to figure out the system for going first after that.
2 more Questions
1) What is a good 4th street %? I play 25/50 cent stud on stars with 5 cent ante. Give me a number please and I will stick to it for a few days and tell ya how it goes. Right now i am like 47%, and know i need less.
2) Someone said 7cs4ap is gonna be too complicated for my noob self. I have super systems 2 on order, does anyone know if the stud section will be good? I was thinking about reading the super stystem stud, putting it into play, then after some practice then reading the 7cs4ap.

Thx 4 the advice.

[Andy B]

47% is way too high. I don't really play on-line, so I don't have numbers, but I think I'm around 25%, and probably a little under 20% for tougher games. Rather than aim for some artificial number, however, you should evaluate each third-street decision based on your hand, the up-cards, the action, and what you anticipate happening behind you. You might have a stretch where half of your hands are playable, and you shouldn't be throwing away good hands because you've been playing "too much" lately. Conversely, you don't want to call with a marginal hand just because you haven't played in a while (although I'm guilty of this myself).

I just don't think that 7CS4AP is that tough. Maybe I'm just smarter than these other guys. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Seriously, if you've studied other games at all seriously, there's no reason you can't just jump into 7CS4AP. Roy West's book just has too much weak advice for me to recommend it.

The stud section of the original S/S is excellent, the one section in that book that is still applicable to the game as it is played today. I can't imagine that they'd do something to make that section worse.

[7stud]

1)What is a good 4th street %? Give me a number please and I will stick to it for a few days and tell ya how it goes

Your question implies that you believe deciding whether to play 3rd street is a random event. If you were told the 'correct' number of starting hands to play was 25%, would you then roll an eight-sided die with 'play' written on two of the faces to determine when to enter the pot?

If you look down to find rolled up 4's, are you going to fold the hand because you've played 35% of your last 100 hands, and you want to 'stick to' your percentage?

2) Someone said 7cs4ap is gonna be too complicated for my noob self.

Yes, I believe you will find that to be the case. In my opinion, it is poorly written and organized--although there is a lot of good information contained in it. For instance, I wonder if anyone(Andy B? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) can come up with what 7CSFAP says to do with this hand:

p1: 2c (bring in)
p2: Qs (raise)
you: (9c 9h) As (what should you do?)
p4: Kh
p5: 6d
p6: 4s
p7: 3h
p8: 7d

However, it isn't necessary to be able to decipher the whole book--you may find some tidbits here and there helpful.

In addition, it is written for $15-$30 Stud, which is played much differently than .25-.50 Stud. You should also consider reading "The Theory of Poker" (Sklansky) to get a good grasp of the basic odds and probabilities in poker, which underlie most of the concepts in any advanced poker book.

[scrapperdog]

Oops i wrote this pretty late at night and I meant to ask what is a good 3rd street %. Assume full table with manditory low bring in.
I know everything in poker is "it depends" but that is not what i need right now. I need someone to lay down a number for me. I am so new at stud that my "it depends" judgement is probably gonna be worse than a fixed number.

Dont feel like you are responsible for me winning or losing. I made an offer for you stud vets ... give me a number, I will stick with it for 3 days and post the results. Andy said 25% but I kind of want to hear from an internet player.
Thx guys.

[Andy B]

I interpreted your question to mean how often you saw fourth street. My advice still stands. To reiterate:

1) Don't let some magic number dictate how many hands you play.

2) Read a damned book already.

[scrapperdog]

Andy i am sorry to mess up your forum with dumb questions. I went to the library and got phil hellmuth's book which has a chapter on stud. Actually, that is how i found out that best hand goes first after the bring in lol. I will have ss in less than a month so try and stay patient until then.

Andy i appreciate your answers and respect that you go out of your way to help idiots like me out.

[Andy B]

When I said that I didn't think that they'd do anything to make the stud section in SS2 worse, I almost said something like, "well, they could have Hellmuth write it or something." I haven't read that book in its entirety, but the stud section is pretty weak.

What I do find irritating is that you come here asking for a number, a couple of knowlegeable people say you shouldn't be unduly influenced by a number, and you come back and say, "thanks guys, but someone give me a number." As for your unwillingness to get 7CS4AP, if it is really too difficult for you, I question whether you'll be able to beat the game anyway. Seriously, if you've studied hold'em or another game, you should be able to jump into it with no problem. If you blew your entire book budget on SS2, that's one thing, but poker books is not an area where I worry a lot about saving money.

This isn't "my" forum, and my motives aren't entirely altruistic.

[ChipWrecked]

www.studstrategy.com

Totally free. And you don't have to walk to the library.

[timmer]

You should read & study 7 card stud 42 lessons by Roy west.

you can get it Here for about $15.00:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=2548114

It has a slight smidgen of erroneous information within it by it will give you a solid backing in the game. It is easily understood and geared for the low limit stud hi poker.

On the primary question, I think a beginning player should be playing about 12% more hands than he is getting to see free on the bring in.

It is typical that so many of these hands don’t get raised on 3rd that you might see an additional 10% of 4th streets just for being the bring in. these hands often get checked on 5th as well


SO if you are seeing 22% to 26% of 4th I THINK YOU ARE PLAYING ABOUT RIGHT FOR A BEGINNER..(oops not shouting)

Your playing percentage should drop off dramatically on the hands you see 5th and again with those you see showdowns with.

It might seem as there is a dramatic drop off between 6th and showdown but PS's stat keeping is a bit deceptive.

The saw sixth street includes the hands you played on past 5th. The showdown stat shows the hands (actually it infers the # of hands) you folded on both 6th and on 7th

My last 500 looked like this:

PokerStars Game Statistics for last 500 games requested by timmer
************************************************** **********
7 Card Stud (Real Money):

500 hands played:
- saw fourth street 167 times (33%)
- saw fifth street 118 times (23%)
- saw sixth street 80 times (16%)
- reached showdown 47 times (9%)

Pots won at showdown - 34 out of 47 (72%)
Pots won without showdown - 43
************************************************** *********


this shows that I folded on 6th and 7th a combined 7% of the time. That 41% could be best draws that didn’t get there or places where some one open over paired, or two paired, failed 5th street steal attempts, redraws that didnt develop, etc.

Also just to explain. I see many more 4th streets and 6th streets than you should be seeing. I have been playing stud poker on and off for the better part of my life (I’m 42) and almost daily for the last 5 years. so My experience allows my to play those extra 10% or more against certain lineups of opponents

good luck

timmer

[scrapperdog]

Thx tim. Here are my "before" stats, result of about -50$. I will let ya know in a few days how playing tighter goes.
7 Card Stud (Real Money):

947 hands played:
- saw fourth street 395 times (41%)
- saw fifth street 256 times (27%)
- saw sixth street 152 times (16%)
- reached showdown 88 times (9%)

Pots won at showdown - 45 out of 88 (51%)
Pots won without showdown - 35