A few hands

AlmightyJay · #1 11-24-2005, 10:02 PM

So I recently decided to look through all my 1/2 hands (so far only 600, in which I'm down 100BB, woohoo). I want to start getting a little more serious about poker, and the first step is going to be studying old hands to find mistakes. And wow, was I glad I did this, because I found quite a few hands that I either played badly or was very unsure about. I don't want to flood the board with a ton of hands, so I just picked two or three to post in here. Comments (and comments on my comments) are much appreciated!

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
6 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, CO folds, Button calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

I feel like I should have folded on the turn. Or maybe not even have bet the flop, though I think after he didn't cap preflop, I should bet here. AK is a strong possibility. I know that I definitely can't fold this river if I'm calling the turn, because what's the point?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB raises, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, CO folds, BB calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

Waiting for the turn to raise is a concept I've had trouble getting the hold off. Ignoring the marginal preflop raise in MP2, how do you like my flop call/turn raise to get CO out? And do you bet this river?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, 5 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

UI AK is another problem hand of mine. What's your move on the flop? 7.5:1, drawing to just two overcards. Should I have simply folded? I don't really have a read on the BB.

#2 11-24-2005, 10:35 PM

1) c\f the turn. EDIT: The GS makes it close but I still fold.
2) I don't hate against an aggressive player.
The only reason not to 3bet the flop is to c\r the turn.
EDIT: This is a standard play for me on a non-coordinated flop. This definitely does not qualify.
But if he's playing for a free card...I think 3betting the flop is best. Or calling the flop raise and donking a safe turn.
EDIT to also say: The way you played it, you can bet/fold this river.
3) If you're going to continue on the flop, I like the raise.
IMO. Just fold to the flop 3bet. Otherwise fine.

DCWildcat · #3 11-25-2005, 12:58 AM

Hand 1, yeah I think you need to fold the turn.

Hand 2 is a definite 3-bet. If you want to drive out CO (or at least make it incorrect to call), seeing 2 cold on the flop will do that mighty well. We don't want to wait to the turn because our hand is very vulnerable, there's multiple players (one of which could be forced out), and it's semi-draw laden with the 2 straight and 2 flush.

Hand 3 is ok. I'm not folding to a 3-bet cause you're getting like 13.5 to 1 or so.

Of all the mistakes, Hand 2 was definately the worst. Hands 1 and 3 weren't killer.

AlmightyJay · #4 11-25-2005, 01:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1, yeah I think you need to fold the turn.

Hand 2 is a definite 3-bet. If you want to drive out CO (or at least make it incorrect to call), seeing 2 cold on the flop will do that mighty well. We don't want to wait to the turn because our hand is very vulnerable, there's multiple players (one of which could be forced out), and it's semi-draw laden with the 2 straight and 2 flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

But this is exactly why we do wait until the turn. My hand is extremely vulnerable, and there are a lot of turn cards that will destroy my equity. 3-betting this flop will do nothing to protect my hand - CO will still be getting over 6:1 on a call, any straight or flush draws aren't going to fold. If I wait until the turn, though, I can see if a safe card comes (which it did) and pop the CO for two BB cold (which I did). My equity jumps a lot on a safe turn card. This seems very similar to the TT hand in SSH.

But like I said, this is a concept I've had a lot of trouble with, and I'm still trying to figure out when to use it. This seems like a quintessential time to use it.

jaxUp · #5 11-25-2005, 01:30 PM

I recommend coming up with some hand ranges here and then comparing our equity on the flop to our equity on the turn when a rag falls. This will help you discern whether or not it was a solid play. For a very nice discussion on equity changes, and how it should affect our play, see Qtip's thread here .
The last 30-40 posts are particularly good, so be sure to read through all of them