JJ in battle of the blinds, 10/20 NL

FoxwoodsFiend · #1 10-20-2005, 09:55 PM

Villain is in BB w/1915. HHero covers and has J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Folded to hero, who makes it $65. Villain calls.
Flop (130): 4d 7c 9c
Hero bets 90, villain makes it 400, hero calls.
Turn (930): Qs
Hero checks, villain bets $700, Hero raises villain all in (1450).

Would you say I overplayed this?

Yeti · #2 10-20-2005, 10:02 PM

Decide on the flop what you are doing. I am shoving.

Allinlife · #3 10-20-2005, 10:05 PM

I guess I only like it if villan is super aggro and capable of turn semibluffs like that. I'm thinking turn stop and go may be better against an unknown.

FoxwoodsFiend · #4 10-20-2005, 10:13 PM

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Decide on the flop what you are doing. I am shoving.

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I did decide what I was doing on the flop, and it didn't involve letting all worse hands off the hook.

RED FACE · #5 10-21-2005, 01:32 AM

I don't play this high but if you're going to cold call that flop shouldn't you be pretty much going into check-call mode? His flop raise is of significant size and the board draw-heavy enough that a monster most likely goes ahead and 3bets villain on the flop, no?

Isn't presenting a sneakily played slowplay as a bluff ev-?

If he flopped a set or 2 pair did you want him to think you had pQ's?

If he's on a draw doesn't he usually check behind on the turn? When he didn't doesn't that suggest a monster against which you have no fold value?

FoxwoodsFiend · #6 10-21-2005, 01:53 AM

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I don't play this high but if you're going to cold call that flop shouldn't you be pretty much going into check-call mode? His flop raise is of significant size and the board draw-heavy enough that a monster most likely goes ahead and 3bets villain on the flop, no?

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If I put villain on a bluff, I don't want to give up any free cards by just calling the turn, though I run the risk of doing so by checking I think he'll bet it.
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Isn't presenting a sneakily played slowplay as a bluff ev-?

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I'm not quite sure what you mean. I don't think I'm bluffing at all.
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If he flopped a set or 2 pair did you want him to think you had pQ's?

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I've pretty much given up on trying to get people to fold two-pairs and sets by min-raising them all in.
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If he's on a draw doesn't he usually check behind on the turn? When he didn't doesn't that suggest a monster against which you have no fold value?

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I think a main difference between 10/20 and whatever stakes you play (not meant disparagingly) is how much more aggressive with draws players are.

Go_Blue88 · #7 10-21-2005, 02:14 AM

I think you should push the flop if you're going to continue the hand.

jonnyUCB · #8 10-21-2005, 02:20 AM

How far is the villian willing to go against your range of hands here? Would he try to push you off the hand on a semibluff continuation? If he has any conception of hand strength at all, there's not much he's betting 700 on the turn to and folding to a push. (unless he picked up that Q and you're convincing him of KK+)

Its fairly obvious you have a big pair here.

RED FACE · #9 10-21-2005, 02:30 AM

Thanks. I thought your play looked so strong that you were presenting a hand better than what you had and I consider that a bluff-not that your hand is without value. I guess at this limit you must push every edge and deal with the resultant increased variance.

Is there any action he could've taken that would've prevented you from getting all in, like if turn was a club or an A do you check-fold and if he checks behind do you check-fold a river blank?

I guess you must add up the possibilities on the flop, 1)overpair, 2)set, 3)2 pair, 4) semi bluff to flush, 5)pure bluff, 6)underpair.

Then if the turn brings the flush card you must assess how he would play that - if your read is that he would slow down w the flush or not.

At the 50NL there is no need to push this kind of hand this hard fortunately.

Is it the fact that he jammed so hard on the flop that strongly persuades you that you're ahead? I reckon so.

If you are ahead on the flop then I guess, no, you didn't overplay it but pushed the edge appropriately.

thanks again

Edit: But then again, on the turn if he had flopped nut flush draw he is now getting 4.1:1 on his money when he only needs 3.2 to beat your hand. Of couse you couldn't predict how much he'd bet or if he'd bet at all but this would be a very bad situation for you imo.

#10 10-21-2005, 04:15 AM

His line does not look like a strong hand that wants you calling. Looks a lot more like, "I will not be pushed around on my blind now you better fold". Any kind of read on villain would probably help but without that I only thing you're losing to AQ here but could easily be up agaisnt TT or 88.