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  #1  
Old 10-11-2005, 09:50 AM
A_PLUS A_PLUS is offline
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Default 2/4 Empire, take the free card or fire again

Typical loose passive table.

UG+1 open limps, 2 other limpers to me on button, I limp along with Ac5c, both blinds come along

Flop: 2h 4c 7c

UG+1 bets, fold, MP calls, I raise. Blinds fold, two callers.

Turn Td

Checked to me...

There are 6BBs in the pot. I have anywhere from 9-15 outs. Neither player was out of the ordinary for a 2/4 table.

Whats your line and why??
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  #2  
Old 10-11-2005, 10:04 AM
car ramrod car ramrod is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Empire, take the free card or fire again

minus a read I probably just check.
If utg has led with nothing on the flop before, I may bet. If I had seen them fold the turn, I may bet.

HU I would bet.
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  #3  
Old 10-11-2005, 10:09 AM
HouseCalls HouseCalls is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Empire, take the free card or fire again

I'd check.
You made a free card play and didn't hit so you might as well take the card. In these LP games your A high is probably not good since almost all aces are played. Also if you take a free card here and hit the calling stations will likely pay you off on the river anyway.
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  #4  
Old 10-11-2005, 10:19 AM
Fantam Fantam is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Empire, take the free card or fire again

I would check behind and take the free card, that your flop raise probably gained for you.

I doubt that you have the best hand on the turn. I expect that at least one of your opponents has a pair.

While you would have the equity to bet the turn for value with 15 outs if both of your opponents called, there is no guarantee that will happen. Also I doubt that you will be able to fold both of your opponents on this low card board, with drawing opportunities.

In addition, I would not like to have to call a 3-bet on the turn, if one of my opponents check/raised.

So I would check behind on the turn, which may allow you to raise a bet on the river if you improve your hand.
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  #5  
Old 10-11-2005, 10:20 AM
A_PLUS A_PLUS is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Empire, take the free card or fire again

No particular reads (i.e. folded turn). EP, was reasonably aggressive (apx 1 total post flop aggression). MP was just a passive donk.

I agree that pretty much all Aces are played, with 6BB in the pot, wouldnt that make me want to bet here more often, since it cuts down the show-down value of my ace high.

I agree that any hand that will call on the turn, will call the river when I make my flush (excluding weird straight draws).

I guess, my thoughts are that you dont need your opponents to fold to the turn bet all that often to make the bet correct?
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  #6  
Old 10-11-2005, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: 2/4 Empire, take the free card or fire again

I would bet. I hate giving free cards. The check might be a trap but with 10+ outs, its worth it to me to bet and face the possible check raise for 8-10BB to the river. Even if he does raise, you can still call and have position on the river with pot odds to call just about anything thrown at you.
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  #7  
Old 10-11-2005, 10:34 AM
HouseCalls HouseCalls is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Empire, take the free card or fire again

Ok I think its close so I (tried) to do the math:

Assuming everyone will call all bets on turn and river you will bet once and get two calls on the turn 1BB for a pot of 9BB (9:1 pot odds).

You have 12 outs to a straight or a flush (2.8:1).

Based on that I guess the math says bet (and I guees it wasn't that close???)...

Here's the problem is my math right (I'm pretty new to this)???
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  #8  
Old 10-11-2005, 10:42 AM
A_PLUS A_PLUS is offline
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Default Re: 2/4 Empire, take the free card or fire again

I think the basic math calcs are lost on this hand. You would really need to get into specific hand ranges, IMO.

I think a key consideration, is that your opponents will have great odds to call with a flush draw (great for me). They dont have the odds to call with 2 OCs (if they think I am made, which is also good for me).

I like betting the nut flush draw rather than the free card, b/c a decent opponent see a check behind on the turn fro what it was, a free card play. So, T9c, may just check call (most likely we get a single raise in) if we make the flush on the river. However, when we bet the turn, we may be able to get the river capped against a weaker flush.
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