another 66 hand...

[lil feller]

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: lil feller is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, lil feller calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">lil feller bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, lil feller calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">lil feller raises</font>, SB calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">lil feller raises</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

This one felt funny. How many fold this PF? Is the river a call or a raise?

thanks,

lf

[Nightwish]

I would muck this preflop. Your immediate odds suck, and even when the action was completed, you were still only getting 3.5:1. When you're playing a small pair like 66 multiway, you're mostly playing for set value, so do you think you're going to make another 4 BB postflop those times that you do flop a set? I don't think so. (Don't forget that there's also a small fraction of time that you'll lose even with your set.)

Also, what were you going to do if the turn hadn't been a 6? Please don't tell me you were going to fold.

On the river, it really depends on what the SB is like. There are players who will bet just about any pair on the river when a flush comes cause they think the scare card protects them from a raise. There are others who will not bet there if they don't have the flush themselves. You really need to start providing stats or at least some information on your opponents if you want meaningful answers.

[DeeJ]

I fold anything 77 or less here against a typical UTG+1 raiser. Put a cold caller in, or another limper, and I'm calling too.

Don't like the flop either - I'd check behind. You were lucky to lose the two early players through the SB raise. Clearly 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is the best card in the deck for you, on the river I'm calling because he's still betting into me despite my turn raise.

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
When you're playing a small pair like 66 multiway, you're mostly playing for set value, so do you think you're going to make another 4 BB postflop those times that you do flop a set?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think with that many players in the hand its possible, but yeah not very likely. When reviewing my sessions I didn't like PF either.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, what were you going to do if the turn hadn't been a 6? Please don't tell me you were going to fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I understand this. the SB c/r looks like he's protecting a pair, doesn't it? All the players except for me are between the SB and the PFR. If he was trying to jam a diamond draw, woudln't he just bet (no reads, sorry). What turn line do you suggest?

lf

[YoureToast]

I fold this preflop. Or fold to the checkraise on the flop. Why not fold on this flop?

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold this preflop. Or fold to the checkraise on the flop. Why not fold on this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly image I guess. Especially online, where not many people know me and they tend to be more aggressive, I really don't like folding for one small bet. I also thought that in addition to my set outs I had some bluff outs, as my PF cold-call and then calling of the flop c/r look a lot like overs. I was unsure of my turn plan, but I wasn't callling. I was raising if I hit, raising if it looked like it hit me, and folding if neither of those options worked.

lf

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, what were you going to do if the turn hadn't been a 6? Please don't tell me you were going to fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I understand this. the SB c/r looks like he's protecting a pair, doesn't it? All the players except for me are between the SB and the PFR. If he was trying to jam a diamond draw, woudln't he just bet (no reads, sorry). What turn line do you suggest?

lf

[/ QUOTE ]
If you're putting the SB on a pair, you should be folding to his flop raise. You are getting 12:1, which is nowhere close to the right odds, even if you include implied odds. Calling the flop for "image" purposes as you put it in another response is a waste of a SB.

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, what were you going to do if the turn hadn't been a 6? Please don't tell me you were going to fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I understand this. the SB c/r looks like he's protecting a pair, doesn't it? All the players except for me are between the SB and the PFR. If he was trying to jam a diamond draw, woudln't he just bet (no reads, sorry). What turn line do you suggest?

lf

[/ QUOTE ]
If you're putting the SB on a pair, you should be folding to his flop raise. You are getting 12:1, which is nowhere close to the right odds, even if you include implied odds. Calling the flop for "image" purposes as you put it in another response is a waste of a SB.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand what you're saying, and I agree with you. I mostly play live, with the same people a lot of the time, and I really don't like it being common knowledge that i'm capable of folding for 1sb in a decent sized pot, after i've put one bet in. I'll do it when i'm bluffing w/ QJ on a KK6 board and its clear i'm drawing dead, but I think the image adjustment provided by not doing it all the time adequately compensates for not having the correct odds to draw.

I'm still adjusting to how unimportant this is online...

lf

[lil feller]

UTG had 89o and was making one of those "i'm gonna call I may as well bet" type bets on the river. I got that impression, and decided to mix it up and raise the river. Still can't believe he called...I thought he had 2pair.

Good thing I run good...

lf

[Dominic]

I'm sorry, but how is calling 2 bets cold with low pairs a +EV move?

Of course, if you keep turning sets with them, by all means!

[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]