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  #11  
Old 08-04-2005, 04:26 PM
QuadsOverQuads QuadsOverQuads is offline
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Default Re: A history lesson


[ QUOTE ]
But the honorable professor makes one terrible leap ... and that is to place the guilt or more succinctly, the ENTIRE blame upon the US as if the terrorist organizations are completely absolved of any crime or attrocity (equating them to mindless puppet employees of the US).

[/ QUOTE ]

He says nothing of the kind. Where are you getting this?


q/q
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  #12  
Old 08-04-2005, 04:39 PM
Roybert Roybert is offline
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Default Re: A history lesson

[ QUOTE ]
Question: Although it would be very satisfying to many, do you really believe that locking up the current adminstration, all its cronies, and anyone else one might remotely link to them would END the problems in the Middle East, Asia, or South America?

[/ QUOTE ]

So, by that rationale, since you believe that punishing those responsible won't solve the problems they created, do you contend that they shouldn't be punished at all (other than to be 'satisfying to many')?

p.s. shameless kick.
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  #13  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:46 PM
johnc johnc is offline
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Default Re: A history lesson

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Question: Although it would be very satisfying to many, do you really believe that locking up the current adminstration, all its cronies, and anyone else one might remotely link to them would END the problems in the Middle East, Asia, or South America?

[/ QUOTE ]

So, by that rationale, since you believe that punishing those responsible won't solve the problems they created, do you contend that they shouldn't be punished at all (other than to be 'satisfying to many')?

p.s. shameless kick.

[/ QUOTE ]

You missed the point completely, whiffed, strike one. The 'sarcastic' statement I made alluded to was the tactic employed (or is it really a tactic?) by the left to bring to light root causes to the one the world's ills, that being the right. My sarcasm in the question was an unheard attempt to shed light on the fact that demonizing current or past administrations and their ilk by the left, such as in this essay, does not accomplish any real goal towards peace, which is really the end that any reasonable person wants, right? It's just BS agendizing. The left does it, so does the right. No real solutions one can sink their teeth into.
In answering your question, hell yes justice should be served. In the current political climate, do you really think the guilty will be punished? Lol!
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  #14  
Old 08-05-2005, 11:19 AM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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Default Re: A history lesson

I dont agree with your assessment of the professors conclusions. I just scanned the post again and could not find it explicitly, so I am assuming that you are suggesting this is an implicit conclusion.


As a history professor he has simply looked at the current situation from a historical perspective. This is one reasonable method to investigate the root causes of the problem under study.

I see you have a relatively small number of posts. If you have been hanging around this forum you would have seen various attempts at identifying the nature of the problem. The simple minded one that jumps out after a superficial look at the events is to point to Islam and lay the blame on that religion. This is patently wrong and a study of history as Dr Cole does here bears that view up.

Now, neither I nor Dr Cole condone the use of violence, condone the misuse of Islam to ferment the violence, suggest that what they are doing is correct, honorable or reasonable but we both agree that the causes of the problem lie in the History and that our role in getting us to where we are at bears important lessons in going forward in dealing with that region. To ignore or write off the history lessons as the Left preaching to the choir is, excuse me for being blunt, ignorant -- and our leaders seem hell bent on being ignorant.
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  #15  
Old 08-05-2005, 11:24 AM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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Default Re: A history lesson

[ QUOTE ]
No real solutions one can sink their teeth into.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see the problem with the way you viewed the professors quote.

He is a professor of history, he as offered an historical perspective and that is all he has offered. In this essay he has not tried to offer any solutions and in fact offering solutions would dilute the history lesson.

The problem is that many ignore history in assessing the problem. The people in power should understand the history, the people who vote for them should understand the history -- independent of the solutions. The politics would come in who's solution you want to support -- and that is a separate game.
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  #16  
Old 08-05-2005, 11:38 AM
bobman0330 bobman0330 is offline
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Default Re: A history lesson

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No real solutions one can sink their teeth into.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see the problem with the way you viewed the professors quote.

He is a professor of history, he as offered an historical perspective and that is all he has offered. In this essay he has not tried to offer any solutions and in fact offering solutions would dilute the history lesson.

The problem is that many ignore history in assessing the problem. The people in power should understand the history, the people who vote for them should understand the history -- independent of the solutions. The politics would come in who's solution you want to support -- and that is a separate game.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think reading that link is going to contribute to understanding the history, you're crazy. Also crazy is thinking that this article is not offering a political perspective on current events.

As a substantive criticism, that article totally fails to deal with, or even address, the wider context of the decision to arm the mujahideen or the positive consequences of that decision.

I just skimmed the article, but I don't really recall him explaining how giving bin Laden Stinger missiles 20 years ago has a causal connection with his people using box cutters and home-made bombs in acts of terrorism today.
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  #17  
Old 08-05-2005, 11:44 AM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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Default Re: A history lesson

Of course, you are free to offer your own historical perspective of the region.
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