Cause or effect? VPIP sliding

[Aaron W.]

I think we're starting down a tangent, but I'm going there anyway.

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hmm, I would think that 16/8 would require less postflop skill - your postflop errors are compensated for by your larger preflop edge when you do play.

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16/8 requires less postflop skill than 18/10 or higher. However, as internet full rings games tighten up (as all the loose idiots run to the action 6-max games), I don't expect 16/8 to be very profitable anymore (I doubt it will be *un*profitable -- just quite a bit less profitable). You're losing your preflop edge because the average player is getting tighter preflop.

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with a looser style, you're in more marginal situations that you can play skillfully into a higher winrate, or you can bury yourself. for those people who can play that extra X% profitably, then you gotta play them. I certainly wasn't arguing that people should forego +EV situations to preserve variance. those arguments are all BS anyway [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. I was just saying that those situations are +EV for fewer players than we might think, and for those players they gotta be 16-17/7-8 while you learn the basics.

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We agree on this 100%. 16/8 is all about mastering the basics.

[tiltaholic]

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hmm, I would think that 16/8 would require less postflop skill - your postflop errors are compensated for by your larger preflop edge when you do play.

with a looser style, you're in more marginal situations that you can play skillfully into a higher winrate, or you can bury yourself. for those people who can play that extra X% profitably, then you gotta play them. I certainly wasn't arguing that people should forego +EV situations to preserve variance. those arguments are all BS anyway [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. I was just saying that those situations are +EV for fewer players than we might think, and for those players they gotta be 16-17/7-8 while you learn the basics.

I personally was still working on fundamental postflop concepts at micros, and didn't really have the comfort level to work on that and expanding preflop at the same time, especially given the marginal situations that would tend to put one in. for the posters who have played many many hands of micros, and the basics of postflop are more familiar, then sure start to push the envelope. but for those posters, it's probably time to move up in limits anyway - don't you want to be beating 3/6 instead of crushing .5/1? for me the 'enlightenment' didn't really start to happen till midway through 2/4, but everyone's mileage may vary.

I think we're saying the same thing, but I still wanted to clarify.

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additional random thought

recently, since my vpip/pfr numbers have "gone to sLAG" i often find myself playing by the seat of my pants. i am definitely not a postflop master -- but i am learning a ton (and also paying a ton) by doing it against the players at my current limit instead of testing the waters at lower limits.

so part of me says to myself - dumba[/i]ss, the poop's gonna hit the fan when you stop catching cards. but then again, it has made the game challenging and fun...since i'm in new situations and am thus forced to think about what to do again.

can i sustain success at 22/13? i don't know. hopefully.